Don't know if any of you are keeping up with this... but it's big and getting alot bigger. The press is picking this one up and some questions are going to have to be answered. The whitewash will have to be of mammoth proportions. Shouldn't be a problem for this administration. It'll be interesting to see if fall guys will be willing to do jail time.
[Ambassador Joseph Wilson]: First, the CIA would perform an internal investigation. The results of that would be passed on to the Justice Department for professional investigation. I don't think this will be dropped. "At the end of the day, it's of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs. And trust me, when I use that name, I measure my words."
Leak of CIA Name Being Investigated
Agent's Identity Disclosed to Journalists
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003Sep27.html
CIA seeks probe of White House
Agency asks Justice to investigate leak of employee’s identity
http://www.msnbc.com/news/937524.asp?0cv=CB10
The Wilson War Continues
The DOJ opens a preliminary probe into whether the White House illegally unmasked a CIA operative
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...,490646,00.html
CIA wants White House investigation
http://www.dailykos.com/archives/004336.html#004336
The Bush Administration Adopts a Worse-than-Nixonian Tactic:
The Deadly Serious Crime Of Naming CIA Operatives
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030815.html
Full Version: Wilsongate?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html...ml#0927031043pm
"In any case, this is truly a bombshell and for the first time I suspect someone may actually lose their job over this -- though loyalty being what it is to the prez I still have my doubts. Here's what this means, as nearly as I can see it. Clearly, the White House knows who those two people are. They also know that the wrongdoing did in fact occur. Perhaps most important, the public now knows that they know. Given all that, I don't see how -- in a climate of media feeding frenzy -- it will be possible to keep their identities a secret for long. And once their identities are known ... "
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_21_atri...471724431308841
"Just so people understand, a "senior administration official" is like the president, the vice president, the cabinet, or a few people of similar rank. Someone is copping to what happened. The question now is who are they ratting out? How senior are the perps? And, when will the lovely frog-march take place?"
A Vengeful White House?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/27/...ain575449.shtml
(CBS) It was an embarrassing mistake when White House officials admitted that there was an inaccuracy in President Bush’s State of the Union address, but now, the fallout from that mistake could lead to criminal charges, CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston reports.
http://billmon.org/archives/000658.html
http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/inde...l?bid=3&pid=823
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/national...&partner=GOOGLE
KNIVES OUT!
"In any case, this is truly a bombshell and for the first time I suspect someone may actually lose their job over this -- though loyalty being what it is to the prez I still have my doubts. Here's what this means, as nearly as I can see it. Clearly, the White House knows who those two people are. They also know that the wrongdoing did in fact occur. Perhaps most important, the public now knows that they know. Given all that, I don't see how -- in a climate of media feeding frenzy -- it will be possible to keep their identities a secret for long. And once their identities are known ... "
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_21_atri...471724431308841
"Just so people understand, a "senior administration official" is like the president, the vice president, the cabinet, or a few people of similar rank. Someone is copping to what happened. The question now is who are they ratting out? How senior are the perps? And, when will the lovely frog-march take place?"
A Vengeful White House?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/27/...ain575449.shtml
(CBS) It was an embarrassing mistake when White House officials admitted that there was an inaccuracy in President Bush’s State of the Union address, but now, the fallout from that mistake could lead to criminal charges, CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston reports.
http://billmon.org/archives/000658.html
http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/inde...l?bid=3&pid=823
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/national...&partner=GOOGLE
KNIVES OUT!
I'm not sure about the bombshell part. Anti Bush partisans pointed out the day after the Novak story that exposing CIA people was a felony. Every reporter in DC and New York knew the White House shopped this story about and knew a felony was in the mix. That was three months ago.
(The Niger/yellowcake story itself was well known the day after the state of the union speech to be totally bogus by anyone with an ounce of curiosty about it. White's revelations in July, causing this story about his wife to be shopped, were not news. Just like this story, it was old news, only finally getting mainstream recognition months later. And then just barely, since White's story was on the front page perhaps a day. Todays story should have been part of that story in July. The 'media' or whatever you call it is so far behind the curve, again, that it is hilarious, or ominous, depending on your outlook)
The CIA put this in play, finally, 3 months later, with its referal to the Justice Dept. In 3 months a lot of things can be strategized and the damage control on this thing will probably be relentless and perfectly executed. A couple of White House people will walk the plank, perhaps even Rove, althought I doubt him. I think he will be protected at all costs. Anyway my main point is this is an old old story and Bush WILL be isolated from it directly. Just as he will more and more be isolated from blame for the Iraqi quagmire.
If, and I say if, this thing does get legs then I would say it's a bearish tell on the market as I have a crackpot opinion that real decimation in the markets always coincides with political weakness at the top. As proof I use 1973-74 and 1931-32. I don't say causal, just coincident. Reinforcing the cycles is the way we cycle people might view it.
I believe at this time however that Bush is almost invulnerable. The polls be damned. The powerful political force that is called 'conservative' but that is radial has almost total control of the government, the courts, the new voting machines in all likelyhood, the mlitary and perhaps most importantly the media. This is a cycle of gigantic power.
Against the backdrop of deterioration in Iraq and all things international the markets have rallied, till just days ago. Even the 50% Bush approval ratings have not dented it. I'm in the show me mode. I believe till proven otherwise that the new radial political establishment is in total control and thus the markets are under control as well. I know this is probably back asswards but that is my habit of thought. If the markets crack I am certain it will be coincident with a big shift in the electoral prospects of The Party.
My tin foil hat self says the political market and the financial markets are one in the same, now more than ever by orders of magnitude. Not that it is conspiracy. It is a more general thing having to do with ideology, self interest, raw power, and modern communications controlling and even creating a culture. We seem to be at an important juncture on the 4 year cycle, which someone pointed out is just as prominent for the dollar as well. If they can pull the dollar and or the stock markets higher now then.... well then, things are going swimmingly for the Boyz or the Matrix or whatever euphamism one chooses for the elites gaining ever more wealth and power now.
(The Niger/yellowcake story itself was well known the day after the state of the union speech to be totally bogus by anyone with an ounce of curiosty about it. White's revelations in July, causing this story about his wife to be shopped, were not news. Just like this story, it was old news, only finally getting mainstream recognition months later. And then just barely, since White's story was on the front page perhaps a day. Todays story should have been part of that story in July. The 'media' or whatever you call it is so far behind the curve, again, that it is hilarious, or ominous, depending on your outlook)
The CIA put this in play, finally, 3 months later, with its referal to the Justice Dept. In 3 months a lot of things can be strategized and the damage control on this thing will probably be relentless and perfectly executed. A couple of White House people will walk the plank, perhaps even Rove, althought I doubt him. I think he will be protected at all costs. Anyway my main point is this is an old old story and Bush WILL be isolated from it directly. Just as he will more and more be isolated from blame for the Iraqi quagmire.
If, and I say if, this thing does get legs then I would say it's a bearish tell on the market as I have a crackpot opinion that real decimation in the markets always coincides with political weakness at the top. As proof I use 1973-74 and 1931-32. I don't say causal, just coincident. Reinforcing the cycles is the way we cycle people might view it.
I believe at this time however that Bush is almost invulnerable. The polls be damned. The powerful political force that is called 'conservative' but that is radial has almost total control of the government, the courts, the new voting machines in all likelyhood, the mlitary and perhaps most importantly the media. This is a cycle of gigantic power.
Against the backdrop of deterioration in Iraq and all things international the markets have rallied, till just days ago. Even the 50% Bush approval ratings have not dented it. I'm in the show me mode. I believe till proven otherwise that the new radial political establishment is in total control and thus the markets are under control as well. I know this is probably back asswards but that is my habit of thought. If the markets crack I am certain it will be coincident with a big shift in the electoral prospects of The Party.
My tin foil hat self says the political market and the financial markets are one in the same, now more than ever by orders of magnitude. Not that it is conspiracy. It is a more general thing having to do with ideology, self interest, raw power, and modern communications controlling and even creating a culture. We seem to be at an important juncture on the 4 year cycle, which someone pointed out is just as prominent for the dollar as well. If they can pull the dollar and or the stock markets higher now then.... well then, things are going swimmingly for the Boyz or the Matrix or whatever euphamism one chooses for the elites gaining ever more wealth and power now.
jorma, good insight on the coincidence of market & political weakness. some significant repeating astro patterns underwrite your point about 1974.
disagree on bush's invulnerability. the wheels are already coming off. just haven't reached the tipping point.
disagree on bush's invulnerability. the wheels are already coming off. just haven't reached the tipping point.
Now, just for fun
How is Cheney's heart doing nowdays?
I'll spell it out a bit. Cheney sent White, sort of. (long story) Cheney is THE intellegence guy at the WH. Big probability this thing started in Cheney's office. (just like every screw up of the administraton. The guy is a walking disaster who unaccountably, or maybe inevitably, believes absolutely in his own infallibility)
So I ask again, how is the big guy doing. That ticker could go aflutter at any (convient) moment. I'm just suggesting some disablement and retirement. So easy, so distracting, so perfect.
How is Cheney's heart doing nowdays?
I'll spell it out a bit. Cheney sent White, sort of. (long story) Cheney is THE intellegence guy at the WH. Big probability this thing started in Cheney's office. (just like every screw up of the administraton. The guy is a walking disaster who unaccountably, or maybe inevitably, believes absolutely in his own infallibility)
So I ask again, how is the big guy doing. That ticker could go aflutter at any (convient) moment. I'm just suggesting some disablement and retirement. So easy, so distracting, so perfect.
speculation and opinion, of course...
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html#092803927am
"Just flipped on the TV and found Fox News interviewing Condi Rice. As it happened, a minute or two after I tuned in Brit Hume asked Rice about the Wilson/Plame matter. Let's be honest, I didn't expect Hume and Tony Snow to be the most hard-hitting questioners on this issue. But you couldn't watch the exchange without seeing how big a deal this is. First of all, Rice denied nothing. It was, in so many words, all no comments. More telling I thought was how visibly rattled Rice seemed. She seemed to have a hard time getting her words out. Her breathing was halting.
To their credit, Hume and Snow followed up by noting that this was a sufficiently serious charge that a bland 'no comment' didn't really cut it. But all Rice could do was awkwardly say that she wasn't going to answer questions because it's in the Justice Department's hands, they're investigating, and that this is the kind of thing that the president doesn't accept. What I took from this is that the White House was stunned by this rapid escalation of events. And they haven't figured out what to do. Or, if they have, they haven't let Condi in on it yet.
When your best argument is 'the Justice Department is investigating us and we hope they get to the bottom of it', you're in a jam."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html#092803927am
"Just flipped on the TV and found Fox News interviewing Condi Rice. As it happened, a minute or two after I tuned in Brit Hume asked Rice about the Wilson/Plame matter. Let's be honest, I didn't expect Hume and Tony Snow to be the most hard-hitting questioners on this issue. But you couldn't watch the exchange without seeing how big a deal this is. First of all, Rice denied nothing. It was, in so many words, all no comments. More telling I thought was how visibly rattled Rice seemed. She seemed to have a hard time getting her words out. Her breathing was halting.
To their credit, Hume and Snow followed up by noting that this was a sufficiently serious charge that a bland 'no comment' didn't really cut it. But all Rice could do was awkwardly say that she wasn't going to answer questions because it's in the Justice Department's hands, they're investigating, and that this is the kind of thing that the president doesn't accept. What I took from this is that the White House was stunned by this rapid escalation of events. And they haven't figured out what to do. Or, if they have, they haven't let Condi in on it yet.
When your best argument is 'the Justice Department is investigating us and we hope they get to the bottom of it', you're in a jam."
As Kristof has reported in the New York Times, the spooks are very upset about how the Bush government has turned them into the neocon propaganda agency.
We are talking about an organisation that has overthrown foreign governments in the past. I do not have the illusion that I know what is going on. But if all of this is true, then there is a good chance that the CIA also has some aces in its deck of cards.
The Bush government is so incompetent and has angered so many important people, that election year may be a year full of revelations and crises.
We are talking about an organisation that has overthrown foreign governments in the past. I do not have the illusion that I know what is going on. But if all of this is true, then there is a good chance that the CIA also has some aces in its deck of cards.
The Bush government is so incompetent and has angered so many important people, that election year may be a year full of revelations and crises.
| QUOTE (Jorma @ Sep 28 2003, 08:59 AM) |
| Now, just for fun How is Cheney's heart doing nowdays? |
Jorma your cruel.
What they need is another Kobe Briant.
AP climbs aboard
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAQL84B5LD.html
so that's WashPo, CBS, MSNBC, AP, NYTimes...
I'd say that this little potential crisis is now mainstream
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAQL84B5LD.html
so that's WashPo, CBS, MSNBC, AP, NYTimes...
I'd say that this little potential crisis is now mainstream
This is the CIA's pay-back to the WH....karma is a bitch!
Right after 911, the Office of Special Plans (OSP) was created. The OSP was a secret group of analysts and policy advisors with no status in the intelligence community who reported directly to the White House and National Security office with cherry-picked intelligence from questionable sources to support the case for invading Iraq. The OSP circumvented formal, well-established oversight procedures, ignored intelligence that didn't further their agenda, expanded the intelligence on weapons beyond what was justified and over-emphasized the national security risk. They became more influential than the C.I.A. or the Defense Intelligence Agency who didn't even know the ultra-secret OSP existed for at least a year.
http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/030512fa_fact
The CIA was taken out of the intelligence loop and they were pissed. Insult was added to injury when Tenet was forced to take the fall for the famous "sixteen words" in the SOTU. Outing one of their operatives was the Last Straw. Three strikes and you're Out!
While the story has "legs", it's up to Asscroft to decide whether or not to proceed with a criminal investigation.....that's the first clue that this may be DOA as the spin machine frantically scrambles behind the scenes. .
That being said, I'm sure the CIA has PLENTY of OTHER dirt on Repugs/Smirk Admin/neocons that will be conveniently leaked over months to come.
Who's gonna' make the popcorn for the show?
========
Not meaning to hijack the thread, but this is Old News with a New Twist that may be coming out in the months to come.....
The Franklin Coverup Scandal - http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup...ingtonTimes.htm
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_1.wmv
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_2.wmv
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_3.wmv
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_4.wmv
Since the Wilson situation shows that the WH will send out "warnings" to others to keep their mouths shut, there's speculation that Smirk's recent UN speech about sex rings/child sex trade/sex vacations (where in the hell did THAT come from?) was a veiled threat to go along with the program "or else".....
Right after 911, the Office of Special Plans (OSP) was created. The OSP was a secret group of analysts and policy advisors with no status in the intelligence community who reported directly to the White House and National Security office with cherry-picked intelligence from questionable sources to support the case for invading Iraq. The OSP circumvented formal, well-established oversight procedures, ignored intelligence that didn't further their agenda, expanded the intelligence on weapons beyond what was justified and over-emphasized the national security risk. They became more influential than the C.I.A. or the Defense Intelligence Agency who didn't even know the ultra-secret OSP existed for at least a year.
http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/030512fa_fact
The CIA was taken out of the intelligence loop and they were pissed. Insult was added to injury when Tenet was forced to take the fall for the famous "sixteen words" in the SOTU. Outing one of their operatives was the Last Straw. Three strikes and you're Out!
While the story has "legs", it's up to Asscroft to decide whether or not to proceed with a criminal investigation.....that's the first clue that this may be DOA as the spin machine frantically scrambles behind the scenes. .
That being said, I'm sure the CIA has PLENTY of OTHER dirt on Repugs/Smirk Admin/neocons that will be conveniently leaked over months to come.
Who's gonna' make the popcorn for the show?
========
Not meaning to hijack the thread, but this is Old News with a New Twist that may be coming out in the months to come.....
The Franklin Coverup Scandal - http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup...ingtonTimes.htm
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_1.wmv
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_2.wmv
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_3.wmv
http://www.thelawparty.org/UnlockedMedia/M...ce2_chunk_4.wmv
Since the Wilson situation shows that the WH will send out "warnings" to others to keep their mouths shut, there's speculation that Smirk's recent UN speech about sex rings/child sex trade/sex vacations (where in the hell did THAT come from?) was a veiled threat to go along with the program "or else".....
Evidently the Post owns this story because they got the call. Now people are trying to read the tea leaves about the source since the wording has changed from high White House to 'aide' or something like that.
Top speculation is now Tenent. Evidentlly CIA called Justice long ago and nothing happend. I was wondering what took CIA so long. Stupid me.
They will wait this thing out and only if it doesn't die down will they, the Justice Dept. move on it.
The White House could care less about the potential felony.
As I said, no bombshell, probably. It's a fizzle. Nothing to see here folks. Oh, look, Kobe's trial is starting.
Top speculation is now Tenent. Evidentlly CIA called Justice long ago and nothing happend. I was wondering what took CIA so long. Stupid me.
They will wait this thing out and only if it doesn't die down will they, the Justice Dept. move on it.
The White House could care less about the potential felony.
As I said, no bombshell, probably. It's a fizzle. Nothing to see here folks. Oh, look, Kobe's trial is starting.
Jorma I think this one has legs.
Drudgereport headline at this moment... "Who leaked the name" with pix of Rove, Cheney, Rice and Card
also...
talkingpointsmemo has this morning's barrage of questions for McClellan:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html...ml#0929031203pm
cornered animals are very dangerous...
can they push it off on aides? will they be willing to take a bullet, kiss their career goodbye and do jail time?
*rubs hands together vigorously*
-----------------------
QUESTION: Yes, but I'm just wondering if there was a conversation between Karl Rove and the President, or if he just talked to you, and you're here at this --
McCLELLAN: He wasn't involved. The President knows he wasn't involved.
QUESTION: How does he know that?
QUESTION: How does he know that?
McCLELLAN: The President knows.
QUESTION: What, is he clairvoyant? How does he know?
Drudgereport headline at this moment... "Who leaked the name" with pix of Rove, Cheney, Rice and Card
also...
talkingpointsmemo has this morning's barrage of questions for McClellan:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html...ml#0929031203pm
cornered animals are very dangerous...
can they push it off on aides? will they be willing to take a bullet, kiss their career goodbye and do jail time?
*rubs hands together vigorously*
-----------------------
QUESTION: Yes, but I'm just wondering if there was a conversation between Karl Rove and the President, or if he just talked to you, and you're here at this --
McCLELLAN: He wasn't involved. The President knows he wasn't involved.
QUESTION: How does he know that?
QUESTION: How does he know that?
McCLELLAN: The President knows.
QUESTION: What, is he clairvoyant? How does he know?
Return fire...
White House Denies Rove Leaked Secret Information
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopu...storyID=3525621
Was it really a secret?
http://www.nationalreview.com/may/may200309291022.asp
White House Denies Rove Leaked Secret Information
http://www.reuters.com/printerFriendlyPopu...storyID=3525621
Was it really a secret?
http://www.nationalreview.com/may/may200309291022.asp
.
Some interesting considerations from Josh Marshall - http://talkingpointsmemo.com/
(September 28th, 2003 -- 10:01 PM EDT // link)
"Can't we just put The Weekly Standard on the case?
"Last week, and I quote, "At the request of THE DAILY STANDARD, White House staffers went through the logs to check whether [Wesley] Clark had ever called White House political adviser Karl Rove."
"Can we try that again?
"I don't mean to pick on any particular 'top White House official'. But the Standard's put Rove's name in the mix. And his phone logs seem readily searchable. So, just at random, let's try him.
"How many calls to Bob Novak, say in the second week of July.
"Presumably it can't be too difficult, take too long, or involve any issues of privilege since White House staffers did a similar search on behalf of a junior staffer at the Standard only a week ago."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html...ml#0928031001pm
================
{September 29th, 2003 -- 12:29 AM EDT // link)
"Blast from the past?
"Sources close to the former president [George H.W. Bush] say Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negativestory with columnist Robert Novak about dissatisfaction with campaign fundraising chief and Bush loyalist Robert Mosbacher Jr. It was smoked out, and he was summarily ousted.
"Why Are These Men Laughing?" Ron Suskind - Esquire January 2003
"Can we see those phone logs?
- Josh Marshall
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html...ml#0929031229am
================
From elsewhere:
Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors."
- George Herbert Walker Bush, 1999
Some interesting considerations from Josh Marshall - http://talkingpointsmemo.com/
(September 28th, 2003 -- 10:01 PM EDT // link)
"Can't we just put The Weekly Standard on the case?
"Last week, and I quote, "At the request of THE DAILY STANDARD, White House staffers went through the logs to check whether [Wesley] Clark had ever called White House political adviser Karl Rove."
"Can we try that again?
"I don't mean to pick on any particular 'top White House official'. But the Standard's put Rove's name in the mix. And his phone logs seem readily searchable. So, just at random, let's try him.
"How many calls to Bob Novak, say in the second week of July.
"Presumably it can't be too difficult, take too long, or involve any issues of privilege since White House staffers did a similar search on behalf of a junior staffer at the Standard only a week ago."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html...ml#0928031001pm
================
{September 29th, 2003 -- 12:29 AM EDT // link)
"Blast from the past?
"Sources close to the former president [George H.W. Bush] say Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush presidential campaign after he planted a negativestory with columnist Robert Novak about dissatisfaction with campaign fundraising chief and Bush loyalist Robert Mosbacher Jr. It was smoked out, and he was summarily ousted.
"Why Are These Men Laughing?" Ron Suskind - Esquire January 2003
"Can we see those phone logs?
- Josh Marshall
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/sept0304.html...ml#0929031229am
================
From elsewhere:
Even though I'm a tranquil guy now at this stage of my life, I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors."
- George Herbert Walker Bush, 1999
The talkdown is in... Jorma wins. It's going away like a feather in the wind. Now back to your regularly scheduled teflon dictatorship.
per DrudgeReport:
'Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July I was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador Wilson's report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction. Another senior official told me the same thing. As a professional journalist with 46 years experience in Washington I do not reveal confidential sources. When I called the CIA in July to confirm Mrs. Wilson's involvement in the mission for her husband -- he is a former Clinton administration official -- they asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else. According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operator, and not in charge of undercover operatives'... -- Novak
End of story.
per DrudgeReport:
'Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July I was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador Wilson's report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction. Another senior official told me the same thing. As a professional journalist with 46 years experience in Washington I do not reveal confidential sources. When I called the CIA in July to confirm Mrs. Wilson's involvement in the mission for her husband -- he is a former Clinton administration official -- they asked me not to use her name, but never indicated it would endanger her or anybody else. According to a confidential source at the CIA, Mrs. Wilson was an analyst, not a spy, not a covert operator, and not in charge of undercover operatives'... -- Novak
End of story.
That's right Purdy. It's over. Malcontents may wring their hands, but it's over. Game, set, match. Who cares if the 'press' asks questions? 25% of the electorate who won't vote GOP anyway. What a joke. It is impossible to measure the level of contempt the administration has for these weak hand wringers.
Which by the way is incredibly bullish.
Which by the way is incredibly bullish.
It's not over. It was all over MSNBC tonight.
Tenet would not have asked for the Justice Dept. investigation if Wilson's wife was just an analyst, as Novak now claims. Novak's furiously backpedaling on behalf of his official sources, but nobody believes the grizzled old ink-stained wretch.
Joseph Wilson is Bush's Dr. David Kelly. But unlike the late Dr. Kelly, Wilson isn't dead yet, nor is his wife. And it would be quite inconvenient to 'terminate' them now.
The Democrat vs. Republican face-off on MSNBC was telling. The Democrat predictably echoed the call of several Democratic senators for a special prosecutor. The Republican first got himself tripped up in Novak vs. Tenet issue of whether Mrs. Wilson was a spy or not. Then he spilled the beans: (paraphrasing) "A special prosecutor isn't going to stop at investigating whether a crime was committed. He's going to start a political inquiry into the justifications used for the Iraq war. And that ISN'T THE QUESTION HERE. (spewing spittle now) THAT ISN'T THE QUESTION!!! The ONLY question is WHETHER A CRIME WAS COMMITTED, and YOU DON'T NEED A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR FOR THAT!!!
At this remarkable inadvertent confession of exactly where the administration's Achilles heel lies, I'm jumping up and down on the kitchen floor, laughing maniacally and pumping my fist in the air.
YES! Bush's Watergate! A third-rate crime brings the whole house of cards down! Blood in the water! Turds on the run. Prisoners in a besieged White House.
Bring it on, I say. And never forget the four I's: (1) Investigate; (2) Impeach; (3) Indict; (4) Incarcerate.
Tenet would not have asked for the Justice Dept. investigation if Wilson's wife was just an analyst, as Novak now claims. Novak's furiously backpedaling on behalf of his official sources, but nobody believes the grizzled old ink-stained wretch.
Joseph Wilson is Bush's Dr. David Kelly. But unlike the late Dr. Kelly, Wilson isn't dead yet, nor is his wife. And it would be quite inconvenient to 'terminate' them now.
The Democrat vs. Republican face-off on MSNBC was telling. The Democrat predictably echoed the call of several Democratic senators for a special prosecutor. The Republican first got himself tripped up in Novak vs. Tenet issue of whether Mrs. Wilson was a spy or not. Then he spilled the beans: (paraphrasing) "A special prosecutor isn't going to stop at investigating whether a crime was committed. He's going to start a political inquiry into the justifications used for the Iraq war. And that ISN'T THE QUESTION HERE. (spewing spittle now) THAT ISN'T THE QUESTION!!! The ONLY question is WHETHER A CRIME WAS COMMITTED, and YOU DON'T NEED A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR FOR THAT!!!
At this remarkable inadvertent confession of exactly where the administration's Achilles heel lies, I'm jumping up and down on the kitchen floor, laughing maniacally and pumping my fist in the air.
YES! Bush's Watergate! A third-rate crime brings the whole house of cards down! Blood in the water! Turds on the run. Prisoners in a besieged White House.
Bring it on, I say. And never forget the four I's: (1) Investigate; (2) Impeach; (3) Indict; (4) Incarcerate.
Here's a fantasyland take-off on Wilsongate by ex-commando Democrat Al Martin.
Doom for Bush and Rove
Martin has a fertile mind for concocting convincing-sounding facts, laws and secrets that no one else ever heard of. Not even a third of this is true, but it's a fun and hard-hitting fabrication.
Doom for Bush and Rove
Martin has a fertile mind for concocting convincing-sounding facts, laws and secrets that no one else ever heard of. Not even a third of this is true, but it's a fun and hard-hitting fabrication.
Novak's backpedaling is laughable and is only digging them deeper.
"Another journalist yesterday confirmed receiving a call from an administration official providing the same information about Wilson's wife before the Novak column appeared on July 14 in The Post and other newspapers
"The journalist, who asked not to be identified because of possible legal ramifications, said that the information was provided as part of an effort to discredit Wilson, but that the CIA information was not treated as especially sensitive. "The official I spoke with thought this was a part of Wilson's story that wasn't known and cast doubt on his whole mission," the person said, declining to identify the official he spoke with. "They thought Wilson was having a good ride and this was part of Wilson's story."
more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003Sep29.html
"Another journalist yesterday confirmed receiving a call from an administration official providing the same information about Wilson's wife before the Novak column appeared on July 14 in The Post and other newspapers
"The journalist, who asked not to be identified because of possible legal ramifications, said that the information was provided as part of an effort to discredit Wilson, but that the CIA information was not treated as especially sensitive. "The official I spoke with thought this was a part of Wilson's story that wasn't known and cast doubt on his whole mission," the person said, declining to identify the official he spoke with. "They thought Wilson was having a good ride and this was part of Wilson's story."
more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2003Sep29.html
..
Doug Thompson of Capitol Hill Blue cranks the volume up another notch:
In a town where every action demands a reaction, where payback is a bitch and where everyone keeps score, there is a fine line between playing hardball and being just plain dumb and stupid.
Looks like Dubya’s boys crossed that line. [in Wilsongate]
Screwing the Pooch
You rule, Doug! Whip 'em again, harder.
In a town where every action demands a reaction, where payback is a bitch and where everyone keeps score, there is a fine line between playing hardball and being just plain dumb and stupid.
Looks like Dubya’s boys crossed that line. [in Wilsongate]
Screwing the Pooch
You rule, Doug! Whip 'em again, harder.
It's all in the media's hands now...
If they want to ride this all the way to town, it could be one more nail in Bushco's coffin..
Right now, they (the media) are measuring newspaper sales/TV advertising vs. any loyalty to the Bush administration.
Even if this goes away, there always seems to be a new accusation against the administration just around the corner on every given moment.
Rove was fired from Bush Sr.'s campaign team in 92 for leaking
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/page1/2128132
ENCORE! ENCORE!
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/page1/2128132
ENCORE! ENCORE!
Sorry folks. The relevant law requires intent. If Ms. Plame was a spook, then by definition noone on the outside knew it. If Novak or anyone else inadvertantly outed her spookiness, then it ain't criminal.
We'll see.
One big question is what this says about Tenet's relationship to this administration. If I were Bush I'd can him.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._st_pe/cia_leak
"The focus on Rove brought an odd twist to Bush's travels. When the president boarded Air Force One at Andrews Air Force Base outside of Washington, he walked up the steps and waved — and not a single camera followed. He looked momentarily perplexed. All lenses were trained on Rove at the bottom of the steps."
Julian Borger Names Karl Rove
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_28_atri...494896909629277
"Several of the journalists are saying privately 'yes it was Karl Rove who I talked to.'"
http://stream.guardian.co.uk:7080/ramgen/s...300903borger.ra
---------------------------
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/
Tuesday, September 30, 2003
Karl Rove did it
According to Julian Borger, the Guardian's Washington reporter, reporters are privately, well, not so privately any more, saying Karl Rove leaked Valerie Plame's name to the media.
Well, all you have to do is check the phone logs and it's goodbye Karl. Well, it won't be that simple, since the next question is : what did the President know and when did he know it? Rove is his Stonewall Jackson. Bush is intensely loyal. Something will have to give and soon. Bush relies on Rove. Is it possible that he did this little deed and never told his boss and main client? Did he just think this was politics and oh, not treason.
If there was any justice in this world, Yousef Yee and Jose Padilla would have a roommate next week. Who will make the most hay of this? Howard Dean, pushing towards $15m this quarter? Wesley Clark? Bob Graham? This is turning into the Marianas Turkey Shoot of politics. The president's closest advisor, recklessly betrays a state secret for petty revenge. You could be drunk all the time and whipsaw Bush with this. Bush knows the truth. He wants to know what to do about it. Which is try to bury it.
Which isn't gonna happen.
Why?
For nearly 50 years, the CIA has been cast as international villian number 1. They were formenting coups, ordering assassinations, playing tango with the KGB. Even in the US, the CIA turned from hero to goat in a few short years. This is the first time in the Agency's history, where they have the moral high ground and widespread public support. In a war against a shadowy terrorist group, people want an effective CIA and one which can protect Americans. To do that, they must be protected and able to work in anonymity. Anything which undermines that will not play well.
If 9/11 changed anything, it is respect for the CIA. People want the Agency to work. Exposing a CIA officer's name, especially one who tracked WMD, is treason. That person is trying to prevent a nuclear attack, fear of which Bush used so skillfully to wage war against Iraq.
The CIA is not going to miss the chance to exploit this chance to play the victim. Hard working secret operative exposed by sleazy political hack for spite. The fact that they have the chance to get revenge on Team B's players, well, that's icing on the cake.
Of course, one could overplay their hand, but Bush's troubles are not diminishing.
-so said Steve at 4:10:31 PM
"The focus on Rove brought an odd twist to Bush's travels. When the president boarded Air Force One at Andrews Air Force Base outside of Washington, he walked up the steps and waved — and not a single camera followed. He looked momentarily perplexed. All lenses were trained on Rove at the bottom of the steps."
Julian Borger Names Karl Rove
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2003_09_28_atri...494896909629277
"Several of the journalists are saying privately 'yes it was Karl Rove who I talked to.'"
http://stream.guardian.co.uk:7080/ramgen/s...300903borger.ra
---------------------------
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/
Tuesday, September 30, 2003
Karl Rove did it
According to Julian Borger, the Guardian's Washington reporter, reporters are privately, well, not so privately any more, saying Karl Rove leaked Valerie Plame's name to the media.
Well, all you have to do is check the phone logs and it's goodbye Karl. Well, it won't be that simple, since the next question is : what did the President know and when did he know it? Rove is his Stonewall Jackson. Bush is intensely loyal. Something will have to give and soon. Bush relies on Rove. Is it possible that he did this little deed and never told his boss and main client? Did he just think this was politics and oh, not treason.
If there was any justice in this world, Yousef Yee and Jose Padilla would have a roommate next week. Who will make the most hay of this? Howard Dean, pushing towards $15m this quarter? Wesley Clark? Bob Graham? This is turning into the Marianas Turkey Shoot of politics. The president's closest advisor, recklessly betrays a state secret for petty revenge. You could be drunk all the time and whipsaw Bush with this. Bush knows the truth. He wants to know what to do about it. Which is try to bury it.
Which isn't gonna happen.
Why?
For nearly 50 years, the CIA has been cast as international villian number 1. They were formenting coups, ordering assassinations, playing tango with the KGB. Even in the US, the CIA turned from hero to goat in a few short years. This is the first time in the Agency's history, where they have the moral high ground and widespread public support. In a war against a shadowy terrorist group, people want an effective CIA and one which can protect Americans. To do that, they must be protected and able to work in anonymity. Anything which undermines that will not play well.
If 9/11 changed anything, it is respect for the CIA. People want the Agency to work. Exposing a CIA officer's name, especially one who tracked WMD, is treason. That person is trying to prevent a nuclear attack, fear of which Bush used so skillfully to wage war against Iraq.
The CIA is not going to miss the chance to exploit this chance to play the victim. Hard working secret operative exposed by sleazy political hack for spite. The fact that they have the chance to get revenge on Team B's players, well, that's icing on the cake.
Of course, one could overplay their hand, but Bush's troubles are not diminishing.
-so said Steve at 4:10:31 PM
Like O.J., Bush is searching for 'the real leaker':
"President Bush called on Tuesday for anyone with information about those who disclosed the identity of a CIA official to come forward, saying: "I want to know the truth."
Diogenes searches for honest man
Kinda like Idi Amin campaigning to stamp out cannibalism. Ludicrous and comical.
"President Bush called on Tuesday for anyone with information about those who disclosed the identity of a CIA official to come forward, saying: "I want to know the truth."
Diogenes searches for honest man
Kinda like Idi Amin campaigning to stamp out cannibalism. Ludicrous and comical.
| QUOTE (chibear @ Sep 30 2003, 06:19 PM) |
| Sorry folks. The relevant law requires intent. If Ms. Plame was a spook, then by definition noone on the outside knew it. If Novak or anyone else inadvertantly outed her spookiness, then it ain't criminal. |
Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined not more than $50,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
Intelligence Identities Act of 1982
it most certainly does require intent. shopping this shit around the DC press and getting a taker on the 6th try seems to suggest not only intent, but a fairly concerted effort.
David MacMichael worked as a CIA analyst at the time the [Intelligence Identities Protection] law was passed. He told Democracy Now!: "If former President Bush could define Philip Agee as a traitor for exposing the identities of serving intelligence officers, if his son's political advisor has done the same it is a very serious felony under the current Act."
Does A Felon Rove the White House?
The one upside of Gauleiter Ashcroft's "no plea bargaining" edict is that Rove may be forced to serve the maximum term without parole.
And, here's a partisan article by someone who labors under the delusion that "the other party" can fix this mess. Despite that gross defect, it does contain some twisted insights:
Shallow Throat speaks
Does A Felon Rove the White House?
The one upside of Gauleiter Ashcroft's "no plea bargaining" edict is that Rove may be forced to serve the maximum term without parole.
And, here's a partisan article by someone who labors under the delusion that "the other party" can fix this mess. Despite that gross defect, it does contain some twisted insights:
| QUOTE |
| "For one thing, as I've been telling you for more than a year now," said Shallow Throat, "quit paying so much attention to Bush -- he's just their front guy -- and focus on Cheney. He's so deep into scandal, hypocrisy, lying, corruption, the blood of innocents, that he should be the obvious target. And probably will be the first member of the Administration to be impeached, if he doesn't resign first, 'for health reasons.' "If he goes, believe it or not, there's even some wild talk about Bush naming Lieberman, the rightwing Democrat, as his running mate on a 'Unity' ticket -- not as crazy as it sounds. Get some conservative Democrats, and Jewish voters, to move into the Republican column, taking key votes away from whoever the Democrat candidate is. And Lieberman is such an ambitious suck-up, he'd probably take the bait. "But let's keep our focus here. Cheney and Rove are the nuts & bolts of the operation ..." |
Shallow Throat speaks
HAHAHA. I'm enjoying this, a little. These scum may yet hang themselves. But really, so what? The U.S. public is being subjected to the "good cop/bad cop" routine. The next president...probably some waffling, Clintonesque jackass like Dean, who will suckle the teats of the fat sow--corporate interest--while the little piglets--the U.S. citizens will starve.
This really is a third-rate crime compared to the outrageous shit they've pulled so far. And like Jorma says, they own the ballot boxes. All that will wreck the Teflon Twit From Texas is a failing economy. As a history prof once said in a class I took: "Americans vote with their wallets."
This really is a third-rate crime compared to the outrageous shit they've pulled so far. And like Jorma says, they own the ballot boxes. All that will wreck the Teflon Twit From Texas is a failing economy. As a history prof once said in a class I took: "Americans vote with their wallets."
Hardball (MSNBC - 9/30/03):
CHRIS MATTHEWS: Don't you think it's more serious than Watergate, when you think about it?
RNC CHAIRMAN ED GILLESPIE: I think if the allegation is true, to reveal the identity of an undercover CIA operative -- it's abhorrent, and it should be a crime, and it is a crime.
CHRIS MATTHEWS: It'd be worse than Watergate, wouldn't it?
GILLESPIE: It's -- Yeah, I suppose in terms of the real world implications of it. It's not just politics.
--------------------
Newsmax (Yes, Newsmax) goes ballistic on the President
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...29/220207.shtml
More blogger thoughts:
http://billmon.org/archives/000689.html
CHRIS MATTHEWS: Don't you think it's more serious than Watergate, when you think about it?
RNC CHAIRMAN ED GILLESPIE: I think if the allegation is true, to reveal the identity of an undercover CIA operative -- it's abhorrent, and it should be a crime, and it is a crime.
CHRIS MATTHEWS: It'd be worse than Watergate, wouldn't it?
GILLESPIE: It's -- Yeah, I suppose in terms of the real world implications of it. It's not just politics.
--------------------
Newsmax (Yes, Newsmax) goes ballistic on the President
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...29/220207.shtml
More blogger thoughts:
http://billmon.org/archives/000689.html
| QUOTE (phatbubble @ Sep 30 2003, 05:48 PM) |
| Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined not more than $50,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both. Intelligence Identities Act of 1982 it most certainly does require intent. shopping this shit around the DC press and getting a taker on the 6th try seems to suggest not only intent, but a fairly concerted effort. |
I dunno Phat.
Nobody has said that anyone gave classified information to Novak with the intent of outing a covert agent. What classified information did they leak? Her identity was not classified. Plame's CIA work was common knowledge in the Washington circles she and her husband hung out in.
We'll see.
Purdymouth,
Thanks for the Whiskey Bar link. Very interesting stuff.
Gillespie was just saying that, if true, the outing of a covert agent would be worse than the original Watergate breakin by the plumbers. Goes without saying, I think, when we are at war, as we are.
Thanks for the Whiskey Bar link. Very interesting stuff.
Gillespie was just saying that, if true, the outing of a covert agent would be worse than the original Watergate breakin by the plumbers. Goes without saying, I think, when we are at war, as we are.
Former CIA official Larry Johnson on PBS Newshour:
I say this as a registered Republican. I am on record giving contributions to the George Bush campaign. This is not about partisan politics. This is about a betrayal, a political smear, of an individual who had no relevance to the story. ... I tell you, it sickens me to be a Republican to see this.
High Crimes and Misdemeanors
I say this as a registered Republican. I am on record giving contributions to the George Bush campaign. This is not about partisan politics. This is about a betrayal, a political smear, of an individual who had no relevance to the story. ... I tell you, it sickens me to be a Republican to see this.
High Crimes and Misdemeanors
| QUOTE (chibear @ Oct 1 2003, 06:16 AM) | ||
I dunno Phat. Nobody has said that anyone gave classified information to Novak with the intent of outing a covert agent. What classified information did they leak? Her identity was not classified. Plame's CIA work was common knowledge in the Washington circles she and her husband hung out in. We'll see. |
what a few people in the clubby washington inner cocktail circuit knew or guessed prior to 14 july is immaterial. she was (apparently) an undercover CIA operative specializing in weapons of mass destruction, whose name we all now know because someone in the white house leaked it to the media for public dissemination. what else would their intent have been?
more from that larry johnson interview:
"This not an alleged abuse. This is a confirmed abuse. I worked with this woman. She started training with me. She has been undercover for three decades. She is not as Bob Novak suggested a "CIA analyst." Given that, I was a CIA analyst for 4 years. I was undercover. I could not divulge to my family outside of my wife that I worked for the CIA unti I left the Intelligence Agency on Sept. 30, 1989. At that point I could admit it. The fact that she was undercover for three decades and that has been divulged is outrageous."
| QUOTE (phatbubble @ Oct 1 2003, 06:52 AM) | ||||
what a few people in the clubby washington inner cocktail circuit knew or guessed prior to 14 july is immaterial. she was (apparently) an undercover CIA operative specializing in weapons of mass destruction, whose name we all now know because someone in the white house leaked it to the media for public dissemination. what else would their intent have been? more from that larry johnson interview: "This not an alleged abuse. This is a confirmed abuse. I worked with this woman. She started training with me. She has been undercover for three decades. She is not as Bob Novak suggested a "CIA analyst." Given that, I was a CIA analyst for 4 years. I was undercover. I could not divulge to my family outside of my wife that I worked for the CIA unti I left the Intelligence Agency on Sept. 30, 1989. At that point I could admit it. The fact that she was undercover for three decades and that has been divulged is outrageous." |
Well, lets see:
Ms Plame is 40 years old. "...undecover for three decades.." means she was originally vetted at the age of 10. Maybe Larry should calm down and rethink this thing.
| QUOTE (chibear @ Oct 1 2003, 12:02 PM) |
| Ms Plame is 40 years old. "...undecover for three decades.." means she was originally vetted at the age of 10. Maybe Larry should calm down and rethink this thing. |
was wondering about that. didn't know if he was overemoting, or if it's an antidisinfo thing, or....what.
does anyone know how old this woman is?
The description of her as 40 years old is probably correct.
Johnson may have meant that she started in (say) 1988 and has been undercover in "three decades" -- the Eighties, the Nineties, and the Double Oughts.
They say stuff like that in Washington. But he really should get a clarification out.
Johnson may have meant that she started in (say) 1988 and has been undercover in "three decades" -- the Eighties, the Nineties, and the Double Oughts.
They say stuff like that in Washington. But he really should get a clarification out.
| QUOTE (phatbubble @ Oct 1 2003, 11:08 AM) |
| was wondering about that. didn't know if he was overemoting, or if it's an antidisinfo thing, or....what. does anyone know how old this woman is? |
The answer to this riddle is the same as thinking about centuries. Quick, what century are we in now? That's right, the 21st.
Same with decades. By the time you've worked 20 years and one day you are in your third decade.
Also, lots of women are "40". For quite a while.
Also possible that CIA operatives don't go around releasing their biographical information with any great frequency or accuracy. Just a guess.
I wouldn't read too much into this inconsistency. Unless you are desperate to poke holes in a growing crisis at any cost. Then I would harp on it endlessly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man, the dogs are on the Wilsongate thingy now. This could well be the hair that leads to the hairball that shows the cowering media simps that these guys are not 'untouchable'.
If that happens, expect the war 'record' of G. W. "Deserter" Bush to suddenly come out along with a review of Harken insider deals, as well as the stolen election and many, many other reprehensible, treasonous things.
So much to come out once the media awakens.
I can't wait. Should be fun and good for a few hundred points off the market to boot!
Well, it does seem to be hanging in there. Perhaps because the entire Washingon press corps knows who gave Novak the story and therefore they know there is blood to be spilled. Just a guess. That doesn't answer why they waited 10 weeks to pursue it, except they are dumb, lazy and run in packs.
I'll still give the nod to The Party to avoid any legal entanglements for any higher ups and negligible voter impact.
I'll still give the nod to The Party to avoid any legal entanglements for any higher ups and negligible voter impact.
The hypocrisy is stunning ...
| QUOTE |
| The Bush administration pushed very hard the idea that America is in danger from WMDs being placed into the hands of terrorists. This was one of the central arguments behind the war in Iraq. Yet in order to protect Bush's political standing, a couple of "administration officials" blew Valerie Plame, and by proxy her network, completely out of the water in an attempt to shut her husband up. In short, in order to protect Bush from the ramifications of using fake evidence to support his war, this White House destroyed an intelligence network that was protecting us from the threat posed by chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. We are less safe now that Valerie Plame is no longer performing this vital task, and the members of her network are in mortal danger of being revealed and destroyed. Beyond that, we are facing a level of hypocrisy that shatters any and all previously known boundaries. This administration ginned up a war in Iraq based upon manufactured evidence and wildly overstated threats, all of which was painted over with rhetoric about defending the country from terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. The fate of Valerie Plame, and her network, shows without doubt that the moral standing of this administration is as empty as Saddam Hussein's WMD cache. |
Outside Probe of Leaks Is Favored
Poll Findings Come As White House Softens Denials
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...0-2003Oct1.html
"Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe a special prosecutor should be named to investigate allegations that Bush administration officials illegally leaked the name of an undercover CIA agent, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll released yesterday.
The poll, taken after the Justice Department announced that it had opened a criminal probe into the matter, pointed to several troubling signs for the White House as Bush aides decide how to contain the damage. The survey found that 81 percent of Americans considered the matter serious, while 72 percent thought it likely that someone in the White House leaked the agent's name.
Confronted with little public support for the White House view that the investigation should be handled by the Justice Department, Bush aides began yesterday to adjust their response to the expanding probe. They reined in earlier, broad portrayals of innocence in favor of more technical arguments that it is possible the disclosure was made without knowledge that a covert operative was being exposed and therefore might not have been a crime."
-------------------------------------
Serious Leak Needs Serious Look
Poll: Disclosure of CIA Info Considered Serious, Special Counsel Warranted
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/WorldNew...31001_poll.html
"Eight in 10 Americans say the alleged White House leak of a CIA operative's identity is a serious matter, and nearly seven in 10 say it should be investigated by a special counsel, not by the administration's own Justice Department."
Poll Findings Come As White House Softens Denials
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...0-2003Oct1.html
"Nearly seven in 10 Americans believe a special prosecutor should be named to investigate allegations that Bush administration officials illegally leaked the name of an undercover CIA agent, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll released yesterday.
The poll, taken after the Justice Department announced that it had opened a criminal probe into the matter, pointed to several troubling signs for the White House as Bush aides decide how to contain the damage. The survey found that 81 percent of Americans considered the matter serious, while 72 percent thought it likely that someone in the White House leaked the agent's name.
Confronted with little public support for the White House view that the investigation should be handled by the Justice Department, Bush aides began yesterday to adjust their response to the expanding probe. They reined in earlier, broad portrayals of innocence in favor of more technical arguments that it is possible the disclosure was made without knowledge that a covert operative was being exposed and therefore might not have been a crime."
-------------------------------------
Serious Leak Needs Serious Look
Poll: Disclosure of CIA Info Considered Serious, Special Counsel Warranted
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/WorldNew...31001_poll.html
"Eight in 10 Americans say the alleged White House leak of a CIA operative's identity is a serious matter, and nearly seven in 10 say it should be investigated by a special counsel, not by the administration's own Justice Department."
The big question is: "Does this story have legs??"
Interpretation: Will this story sell newspapers??
Yup... it seems to be selling newspapers.
Well, I'm going to call back the former Chair of the Rep. party here in NH.. he wants to run an opponent to Bush in the Primary.. interesting idea.
Well, there seems to be a hiatus in all this for the moment. Maybe the lib press is too busy bombing Arnold in the 11th hour. ( Why bomb Arnold, you may ask? Consider what chance the Billary has to be elected if she doesn't get Cal's 54 electoral votes. Probable answer:zero).
We'll see.
What worries me most is that this Plame affair is clear evidence of a serious rift between the WH and the CIA at a time when I don't think that helps the nation.
We'll see.
What worries me most is that this Plame affair is clear evidence of a serious rift between the WH and the CIA at a time when I don't think that helps the nation.
Lib press? What a joke. Are they the 5 or 6 individuals who still have their jobs even tho' they refuse to kowtow to the fascist usurpers in the White House by acting as government propagandists? Conservatives=Fascists, Liberals=Socialists. Bloody labels.
| QUOTE (ThorAss @ Oct 3 2003, 07:46 AM) |
| Lib press? What a joke. Are they the 5 or 6 individuals who still have their jobs even tho' they refuse to kowtow to the fascist usurpers in the White House by acting as government propagandists? Conservatives=Fascists, Liberals=Socialists. Bloody labels. |
word.
whenever a repub is under fire it's 'the liberal media', and when a dem is under fire it's a 'vast right-wing conspiracy'. most of this partisan whinging is a complete load of shit.
what it really is is just a bunch of people who cannot fully investigate or expose anything without running afoul of vindictive politicians, corporate mouthpiece owners, or other assorted PTB. thus they cringe in silent herds, and only commence to bleat when bleating has become general. which is often when the shepherds are caught unawares, or actually are in disagreement and are encouraging or at least tolerating the bleating.
i've forgotten what political journalist decried modern political journalism as being "unconscionably wimpy". it was sometime in the early 1970s.
| QUOTE (ThorAss @ Oct 3 2003, 06:46 AM) |
| Lib press? What a joke. Are they the 5 or 6 individuals who still have their jobs even tho' they refuse to kowtow to the fascist usurpers in the White House by acting as government propagandists? Conservatives=Fascists, Liberals=Socialists. Bloody labels. |
Folks, let's be perfectly honest here. There's no liberal press.
The free pass the neo-con's have enjoyed in every major news and TV outlet is nothing short of staggeringly obvious and profound.
A simple litmus test here: just ask yourself what the likely reaction would have been to these things if Clinton had been in office and committed them:
1) Unable to account for more than a year of national guard 'service' and unwilling to release the relevant records
2) Flat out lying about intelligence to drag us into a major ground force war and occupation of another country
3) Purposely releasing the name of a covert operative seemingly for petty political reasons thereby placing our nation at greater risk
4) Funneling huge no-bid contracts to old work buddies and major contributors
Puuulease. If you think there is any semblance of parity between the way Clinton was treated and these neo-jerks have been treated, you are not paying attention. Or blindly partisan.
Clinton was endlessly hammered for taking a perfectly legal draft deferment as a Rhodes scholar. Dick Cheney, on the other hand, had "other priorities". Ditto for Rumsfeld. Bush was missing from his post for 13 months more than the 29 day limit that separates AWOL from desertion. Where are the stories about the military people who are offended by their civilian leaders having missed their patriotic duty? Where's the inquiry into Bush's record? Nowhere, that's where.
Quick, name a 'Liberal' newspaper? The New York Times? That miserable paper of no record couldn't possibly have championed getting us into the Iraq more than it did. From the inexcusable and fraudulent Pentagon propaganda bullhorning of Judith Miller to their virtually non-existant coverage of alternative points of view and protests, their bias was clear. Liberal? That's just repeating an unsupportable talking point from Rush Limbaugh. No evidence to back it, only, it would now seem, a drug addled haze of synaptic misfires.
I have lots of evidence to back up the "not liberal" case. All ears for "liberal" case to be made. Waiting patiently, too.
P.S. As always, I am not for a minute defending or condoning that reprehensible miscreant Clinton although it should be pointed out that I care not one whit about the Lewinski affair but rather about the NAFTA and bubble-omics damage inflicted upon us all.
| QUOTE (chibear @ Oct 3 2003, 06:22 AM) |
| Well, there seems to be a hiatus in all this for the moment. Maybe the lib press is too busy bombing Arnold in the 11th hour. ( Why bomb Arnold, you may ask? Consider what chance the Billary has to be elected if she doesn't get Cal's 54 electoral votes. Probable answer:zero). We'll see. What worries me most is that this Plame affair is clear evidence of a serious rift between the WH and the CIA at a time when I don't think that helps the nation. |
Why bomb Arnold?
I don't know. Perhaps it's the fact that he is an admitted gang-banger and drug abuser who posed in sex mags and habitually groped women?
If Ahnuld was a Democrat with his particular past would you expect or not expect newpapers to trip all over themselves to front-page these salacious details?
sphinxter, amen to all that. i would suggest that clinton was handled with kid gloves as concerns more grave items like the statistically impossible number of 'insiders' who met sudden and untimely ends. it was easier and safer to pigpile on him for his prevarications about whether he "did not inhale" or "did not have sex with that woman" than to make a front-page, prime-time issue of what, exactly, ron brown was doing with a bullethole in his head in the rubble of that plane crash.
which, i think, is the heart of the issue. bush will come under pressure for some stupid-assed detail, the same way nixon went down in flames over 18 minutes of blank tape. save for some fractious internet mutterings, the stones under which lie the serious felonies and treasonable offenses, murders, crimes against humanity, profit from foreknowledge of catastrophic attacks - those go mostly unturned.
which, i think, is the heart of the issue. bush will come under pressure for some stupid-assed detail, the same way nixon went down in flames over 18 minutes of blank tape. save for some fractious internet mutterings, the stones under which lie the serious felonies and treasonable offenses, murders, crimes against humanity, profit from foreknowledge of catastrophic attacks - those go mostly unturned.
Doc's right to ignore these political forums which always so quickly devolve into cartoons. Chibears concern about a rift between the CIA and the administration is over a year late. Don't worry however guy. The only intellegence taken by the administration is that given by loyalists. It may take 4 more years but eventually only loyalists will be at the CIA and then all will be kissy huggy between them
And on the silly Clinton death list. The moderately liberal governor of a pissant southern state, whose net worth on leaving there was $86K, runs a team of fanatically loyal killer spooks, volunteers evidently, who will stop at nothing to advance his moderate so called "third way". People actually believe this tripe?
On the so called scandal. It's a ripple.
And on the silly Clinton death list. The moderately liberal governor of a pissant southern state, whose net worth on leaving there was $86K, runs a team of fanatically loyal killer spooks, volunteers evidently, who will stop at nothing to advance his moderate so called "third way". People actually believe this tripe?
On the so called scandal. It's a ripple.
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