The Stool Pigeons Wire => Look Out Below => Message started by: torah man on November 22, 2002, 01:15:29 pm
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Title: What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 22, 2002, 01:15:29 pm
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These last few days have revealed the innermost fears of many on the board. We are not in charge. I am not going to buy into the 'Powers that Be' stuff either, because they are in the same boat. Even Slimey Al, the man we all love to dump on, is following a play script that he did not write.
I took Thursday night off from reading Mark to Market and have only been catching up this morning. My wife and I took our 14 year old daughter out to dinner at a nice restaurant in NYC. A big treat for her and the biggest treat for my wife and I was watching her face make and keep a smile on it the whole evening. I think we have to remember a couple of things once in a while.
Nobody is in charge. I mean nobody that breathes. The real 'Powers that Be' are not the biggies in their board rooms or the fed guys or even the resident of the white house.
'The One Above', to avoid using a name and starting a religious war, is in charge. From my learnings, the amount of money a person will make in any year is determined at the beginning of the year. For those of you who think that year ends next month, that means Dec 31. For those of you, like me, who follow our lunar calendar, which means on Rosh Hoshanah, the Jewish New Year. I have a friend who is an artist, making money only when he sells a painting or lithograph. He says that when he is up for the year and it is August, he wonders if he is above his quota for the year and some new expenses will crop up and average down his yearly income. If he is way down for the year, he becomes confident that a buyer will show up for one of his unsold paintings and he will have money for the mortgage payment.
Everything that happens to us is for a reason. We have to figure out what the lesson is in every experience we have.
I love the site and Doc's cmaps. I love Simple Guy's quiet confidence. I love Merciless's commentary and of course Mark to Market, the reason I found the site in the first place (another story).
We have to do our best to make receptacles for all blessings, both physical and spiritual. We have trading accounts and try to use our heads over our hearts when making trades. Some of us also have day jobs, so to speak. Whatever lines we have in the water, the actual delivery of blessings into our baskets is not in our control.
One way to help increase the flow into one's basket is to do the right thing with the blessings already received. Is everyone giving enough charity? Does everyone really take the time to appreciate all of the special people in each one of our lives? Do those people know they are appreciated?
Take the opportunity, when every trade is going the wrong way, to give it up. Many of us, especially me, have almost thrown our backs out by using body english to get this market to go where we want. Instead I realized again, and I won't fail to forget again, that I am not in control. It does not have to go the way I said. Instead I now say, Well 'The One Above', if You want me to give that extra charity; if You want me to be able to help those people who need help; if You want me to serve you without pain, then You better fill these baskets. I have done all I can do about it and now it is Your turn. I am going to spend some time with my wife, my children, and my friends. And by the way, I have lots of new friends I have found on this web site www.capitalstool.com and they also need their baskets filled.
And most importantly, we should all have good health in which to properly appreciate all of the blessings we have received. That means good health for us and for our families and our friends and for those we have not met yet.
Thank You.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Irishjew on November 22, 2002, 01:32:50 pm
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Nice one, Torah Man. Brotha keepin it real, right here, folks.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DrStool on November 22, 2002, 01:56:23 pm
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Look up in the sky! It's TorahMan! (http://www.capitalstool.com/music/superman.wav)
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: phatbubble on November 22, 2002, 07:40:03 pm
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well said torah.
may your baskets and those of the ones you love be filled.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: ThorAss on November 22, 2002, 09:50:25 pm
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Heard a good one at work yesterday.
If ya wanna give God a laugh, tell Him your plans.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: StrawDaddy on November 23, 2002, 01:44:44 am
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I've been asking the same question as well.
I've been running what if scenarios through my head and I never cease to amaze myself what with all these random thoughts I think.
Take a short tour of TheDrudgeReports headlines accompanied by my random thoughts as I envision them..
Here's the first three:
'MISS WORLD' FLEES NIGERIA...
Pageant moves to London on Dec. 7...
At Least 105 Dead in Riots...
:-\ You know a Muslim country is licked when women walk freely. -- or -- Is that womenkinds last battle before they lead the world (as mentioned in the Bible) :-\
Another two:
Plane diverted after unruly passenger claims to be terrorist...
French say airliner bomb threat 'a bad joke'...
Well that's one way to avoid having to switch planes. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: ThorAss on November 23, 2002, 06:49:25 pm
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Talk about conspiracies. DorAss proposed last night that child molesting was a male plot to keep the bulk of the childrearing in the hands of women and reverse Emancipation.
I, heartily agreed, hopefully keeping the sarcasm out of my voice.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: GregFokker on November 23, 2002, 07:16:03 pm
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Torah Man, thanks for sharing that with us and bringing us reason and lucidity like a soft blanket.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: gruff on November 23, 2002, 08:18:32 pm
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Perhaps, the plea to 'The One Above' could try this approach...
A man went to church and prayed to God, asking for his assistance in helping the poor.
"Dear Lord, thrice-blessed Creator, if only I should acquire $10,000, then I promise on my mother's grave that I would give $1,000 of it to the poor."
He waited a decent interval, but nothing happened. A thought occurred to him, and he tried again.
"Lord, if you don't trust me, you can deduct the $1,000 in advance and just give me the balance." ;D
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 23, 2002, 10:39:04 pm
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well, the sun went down and the new week has started.
thanks for the positive feedback here and in the other boards.
i thought i might have generated some questions though.
i tried to express deep stuff while standing in a wading pool. i had to condense to not make the post too long.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DogBoy on November 24, 2002, 01:16:18 am
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"Everything that happens to us is for a reason. We have to figure out what the lesson is in every experience we have."
"We have to do our best to make receptacles for all blessings, both physical and spiritual. "
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Very inspiring especially in these times where the world seemingly stands on the brink of disaster.
If only world leaders had such a view of things the world would be a better and safer place.
I think that the days ahead of us are truly those that will try men's souls.
I beleive that the "higher one" has something very important to reveal to all of humanity and I doubt that anyone willl come out of it without feeling guilty and ashamed at what's being done today often in the name of God.
Neither Muslims, Jews, Protestants or Catholics will come out of this one on top but everyone will learn some important lessons.
But the forecast is for a very long period of peace and tranquility to follow.
Sorry to say this on the Stool site but it will be an endless Bullz Market. But it will be one based on truth and hard work, not on smoke and mirrors and little plastic cards.
Anybody Bearish when this Bull comes along will be the greatest fool of all time. Much like those who are bullish today are the greater fool.
But for now we try to use our minds and intellect to make some extra income by playing the game as disgusting and dirty as it often is. And the game right now is still a Bear Market with no light in the tunnel to see -- only flashes in the rear view mirror of the Bullz market that was.
AG and his ilk are pissing against the wind. They don't have arms long enough to win this match. 1000's of years of history are going against them. They truly are fighting a losing battle and they probably don't even realize it.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: GregFokker on November 24, 2002, 01:55:29 am
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Missed you, Dogboy- good to have ya back.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Pigeon Drop on November 24, 2002, 02:47:57 am
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Hmm. AG is fighting a losing battle, but he doesn't even realize it? But someone named Dog Boy on a web site does know better than AG?
OK, whatever floats your boat. Sometimes the passionate "smarter than the rest of them" bearishness that manifests itself on these boards is a little over the top.
Fact is, if they don't know, then neither do you. You are speculating, pure and simple. Gambling. And talking your position, but declaring it as absolute fact with great authority. You could be wrong. None of us knows.
A little humility as regards one's ability to foretell the future would suit all of us sometimes, whether a foaming at the mouth-pie in the sky-bull, or an angry because the market isn't going down the way it should-bear.
None of us knows. But I will say that I discount the most extreme of both persuasions. I ignore Kudlow talking 40% up next year as well as the people here saying we'll all be hiding in caves with guns and sacks of rice. And Kruggerands. Sitting there in that dark wet hole gripping those Krugs in one hand and a gun in the other with a wild gleam in the eye, looking to shoot anyone who comes near to steal my sack of rice. PUHLEEZE! Get some help, get an injection of thorazine or something.
Extreme zealots are just nuts. The internet is full of them.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: mjkst27 on November 24, 2002, 03:20:57 am
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PD - I dunno, I don't think DogBoy was too far outta line there. Sometimes you can learn a lot from guys on the internet named DogBoy. Keep an open mind. Prechter had "free week" this week. I guess DogBoy did too, since he has been away for a while. ;D
Let's suffice it to say that AG is simply trying to finish out his term without a major collapse in the economy or the stock market. He may or may not be successful, depending on a number of factors. As for the long run (beyond the end of his term) I don't think Al gives one good care if the system sinks or swims. The battle DogBoy refers to isn't really on Al's radar, it's just DB's way of saying "we in a whirld a hurt"
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: ThorAss on November 24, 2002, 03:23:53 am
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Those who were brave enough in early 2000 to predict the imminent complete collapse of the Nasdaq were equally scorned. Dogboy just has a passionate style. No sense complaining about it.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DogBoy on November 24, 2002, 05:26:32 am
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I started buying PUTz when the NazDaq was at 4400 in Sept '00.
I've worked in technology all my life but until Mar 00 never knew a friggin thing about stocks --- never bought a stock in any way shape or form.
All I knew was what my parent told me that if you buy stocks you're doomed to lose your money.
Then I started doing some reading about which with the inside knowledge I had about software, PC's and chips led me to the conclusion that the whole world had gone nutz.
As regards the geo-political situation and the general stock market (S&P) I come to the conclusion today that the world is EQUALLY as BONKERS today as it was in Mar 00 about tech.
Stocks are trading at ENORMOUS valuations at a time when the world teeters on the brink of disaster. Everywhere you look there are major forces and strains on the world economy and political situation. I don't recall ANY time in modern history when things looked so dire.
One look at long term bond and stock charts tells the whole story. We're looking at some major ass-kickin in the markets next year. And it's Da Bearz who are gonna be whoopin ass.
If you think we're headed for a new Bullz market then please put your $$$ where your keystrokes are.
I do all the time.
Enough said ?
And to issue forth a famous quote "Every Dog has his day".
An so far since Sept 00 I've had like 790 of 'em. No sign of the end of the "Dog's Day" yet --- to the contrary I see a Bear Market as far as the all-seeing eye can see -- which is a long wayz.
Happy trading !!!!!
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 24, 2002, 07:31:44 am
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everyone, please, we seem to have forgotten the message of this thread.
it does not matter which positions you play. none of us are opening and closing the same positions at the same time. we all leave room for individual income or loss.
the message is how we act as people in our relationship with other people and with 'The One Above' is all that counts. Whether we make money or lose money is only slightly in our control and mostly rests above. (Not that we can make any if He says no)
When someone buys a lottery ticket, they announce their intentions, sometimes only in their thoughts, and then they have made a basket to receive the blessing. sometimes it comes and sometimes it does not. buying two lottery tickets for the sam payoff, is almost blasphemous because we are saying we can pick the right numbers to win. how absurd is that.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DrStool on November 24, 2002, 07:40:12 am
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It's a bigger basket.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: GregFokker on November 24, 2002, 07:56:32 am
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[quote author=torah man link=board=3;threadid=927;start=12#9680 date=1038141104]
When someone buys a lottery ticket, they announce their intentions, sometimes only in their thoughts, and then they have made a basket to receive the blessing. sometimes it comes and sometimes it does not. buying two lottery tickets for the sam payoff, is almost blasphemous because we are saying we can pick the right numbers to win. how absurd is that.
[/quote]
Hot diggity, Torah Man, I'd never thought about it quite that way. I'll now struggle to decide where to draw the line- because we *do* orchestrate our actions to maximize the chance of their being successful (or at least some of us do ;D ). Is it just a matter of odds? If so, where's the cutoff- that's what I'll contemplate on this dreary Sunday for awhile.
Doc, the "bigger basket" is the reason for leverage... even when it becomes a smaller basket
Pigeon Drop... I could not disagree more. Every person is guessing at their statements, regardless of their qualification(s). No one knows. We don't, and neither do they. To proclaim one's opinion as a fact with great conviction, assurance or authority is every speaker's right. The audience is free to listen, take notes, storm out, sing along, or fall asleep. You don't believe Dogboy or his doubt his qualifications? Bully for you. But his mode of expression, his style, is his own.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 24, 2002, 10:04:23 am
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the lottery ticket example needs more info.
i have a lottery ticket for a certain drawing. then someone else wants to split one with me, that is ok cause the payout is different, 1/2 of the total. etc. how much we can get is totally out of our hands in any case cause there could be multiple winning tickets causing the splitting to go even further.
i always use the quick pick feature on the rare occasions where i get a ticket. let the computer or randomness give me the numbers, certainly my choice of numbers will not help or hinder my winning possibilities.
having more than one ticket statistically does not change the almost insignificant odds by any measurable amount. it does scream out that the numbers i have picked have some extra something and therefore goes against the stream of the flow.
sometimes and maybe even often the winner has played multiple tickets all with custom picked numbers. it does not mean that they would not have won with one ticket with computer picked numbers.
some people in this world receive what appears to be blessings in this world of flesh and blood for their good behavior, which is not their main character trait. this allows the punishment in the world to come to be untempered by their good deeds. this is why the wicked sometimes seem to prosper.
on the other side, the good sometimes receive what appear to be harsh rewards in this world. this is so that they only receive good in the world to come.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DrStool on November 24, 2002, 11:05:50 am
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Is it not true that the "world to come" is a matter of faith, not fact, and that good deeds are their own reward?
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DogBoy on November 24, 2002, 11:09:16 am
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"buying two lottery tickets for the sam payoff, is almost blasphemous "
Agree. Getting greedy and playing too big is the biggest mistake of all in trading. And that's no matter how much you beleive in your positions.
To me it is a spiritual thing.
One time I caught a 75 lb sail fish on my first time out.
One of the Mexicans on the boat said that the fish was about 14 years old and their numbers are dwindling.
He told me about rich Americans that come down there and want to catch 2 or 3. There is something really wrong with that kind of attitude.
When you get too greedy and load up too big you are going to lose for sure and the Higher Power will make sure of it.
As with the sailfish just take from the market what you need to and leave it be and you'll make steady profits all the time.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Hoodwinked on November 24, 2002, 11:09:53 am
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Life is random. With observation we can have a better handle on what "may" be on the road ahead. Let's face it Dubya aint asking Saddam over for Wed night poker.
Life gives us her tells, and when we think we have it figured out....Whamo....right in the chops.Torah's first post is a focus often lost. Mrs Hood is in Vegas with Daughter #3 for the holiday with her family. My focus right now....I just want them home safe. Sure I hope I make the dough to cover the trip while they are gone. If I dont I will be just as happy to have been able to afford them this opportunity as is.
Torah the message I got from your first post was "dont let lifes set backs get you down, focus on what really matters when feeling low".....and as Glad posted on IDS..."This too shall pass".
Just think....any of us could have been born in the Sudan, considering a good find in the garbage, a major score for the day.
Be Well
Be Safe
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 24, 2002, 11:54:44 am
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[quote author=DrStool link=board=3;threadid=927;start=12#9696 date=1038153950]
Is it not true that the "world to come" is a matter of faith, not fact, and that good deeds are their own reward?
[/quote]
The purpose of creation and our existance is for us to make a dwelling place in this lowly physical world for 'The One Above'. What makes this a challenge is that it is not fact based that 'The One Above' even exists. Surely one can argue logical for the existance of 'The One Above', but real acceptance of the truth is faith based. It is our living by our faith that it is true that actually creates the dwelling place for 'The One Above' here.
The Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe while being held in prison in Russia, was threatened by a security agent with a pistol. The Previous Rebbe answered the agent, that toy of yours only can threaten someone with one world and many g-ds. I have one G-d and many worlds and therefore it does not have any power over me. (i will research and correct this story if it is not so, i paraphrased it from memory)
The reward for good deeds in the present is easily felt by both the receiver and the doer. This feeling is generated by the part inside of us that is directly connected to 'The One Above' and which rejoices as we make this world a dwelling for It.
I am not a great scholar. In reality, I am what would be called the bottom of the class. I have been immersed in the lifestyle for 18 years or so and have picked up most of my knowledge by paying attention. I have people I can contact for more detailed answers to lots of questions that I may fail to answer adequately.
My purpose in life is to get the questions asked. Once a question has been asked, the answer will be found.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DrStool on November 24, 2002, 12:24:23 pm
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OK.
Where is the top?
Oh, and when?
Or is that too many questions? (http://www.capitalstool.com/music/oy.wav)
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 24, 2002, 12:31:02 pm
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off topic on this thread but i am holding by simple guy.
this week, tuesday at latest, and anywhere between here and 960.
if it climbs past tuesday, i withdraw and wait for divine inspiration to enter again.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DrStool on November 24, 2002, 12:40:02 pm
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Just havin' some fun with you TM.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: sweefraapp on November 24, 2002, 01:25:55 pm
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Is it not true that the "world to come" is a matter of faith, not fact, and that good deeds are their own reward?
The "world to come" is better rendered as "age to come". Faith is required. Faith cannot be purchased but is a gift – not a work. If one hasn’t faith, then it hasn’t been given – and that for a purpose beneficial to the individual and to “The One Above” – no cause for superior attitude from one or a defensive attitude from the other. If one has faith, it is not of that person’s doing. Faith will not be needed in the future when all is revealed. Then all will “see” – no faith.
Good deeds bring satisfaction to the doer and happiness to the receiver. Both actions are accomplished through grace and not sourced within – in an ultimate sense. All of our actions – both “good” and “bad” are purposed to bring each person to a point that is deemed best for all creation. The end will be a thankfulness so overwhelming that the desired love from the created for “The One Above” is universal, deep and true – like a rubber band, some are stretched further with a resultant slingshot back to “The Maker”. Those stretched furthest will be the most thankful. That is an unwelcomed concept for my “Christian” friends. The claim of any man to faith, good deeds, and love of “The One Above” should be made with the One who gave it in mind.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Gladiator on November 24, 2002, 05:46:23 pm
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Torah Man -
I am very touched. You have done us all a very great service, a giant mitzvah as it were, by starting this thread. Your opening commentary was not only a profound and extremely centering experience for me but was also the catalyst for the absolutely wonderful and insightful comments that others contributed as well.
This is Truth. This is Grace. This is Beauty. I am proud to be a member of this community.
God Bless you all.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Takachi on November 24, 2002, 06:27:05 pm
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Wonderful thread Torah Man - thanks and a couple of related thoughts.
In our modern thinking we speak of "good" deeds, a good man, and many other uses of that word good! In fact, the word good has its origin in Godly - that is, good was by definition something sourced from God. Our language has become so bastardized that good has taken on an independent meaning implying that something can be good and yet not sourced from God. When a rich young ruler called Jesus "good rabbi", the response was, "there is none good, save the Father". If I give a million dollars to the cancer fund, its very nice, but strictly speaking, unless the action was sourced from God, its not "good". Its a serious omission when our language has lost the meaning of a "good" deed.
Someone spoke of faith as a gift and that one cannot have faith unless it is given. I agree with that except that the Giver has decreed that the receiver make a choice in order to receive. IOW, I must make a choice for or in consideration of Him, before (by His own decree) faith comes. Abranham chose to believe God (re: Isaac) and He considered that as righteousness credited to Abram. Its a small point, but one that bedevils a lot of people who wonder why some have faith and not others.
I teach a number of adult Bible studies and, no doubt, the best classes are when something extraordinary happens and there is a gifting of some insight or discussion. But, while no amount of preparation can predestine an extraordinary gifting of a class discussion, it is certain that no preparation (reliance on the gift vs prep.) on the teachers part will be met with no gift. Same thing in trading.....in the absence of preparation and hard work, the reward is likely to be meager.
sorry to have gone so long!
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: ThorAss on November 24, 2002, 10:13:56 pm
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When you buy the second lottery ticket, you're saying that the numbers on the first ticket might be wrong. Well, if the numbers on the first ticket might be wrong, then the numbers on the second ticket might be wrong. Better not buy the second ticket. Too late for the first, already bought that. Maybe I'll give it to a waitress in loo of a tip especially if she looks like Sandra Bullock and there's some chance of docking. :-*
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: sweefraapp on November 24, 2002, 10:25:11 pm
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Takachi: We all make choices, but they are not free will choices. They have a cause. It is amazing what important details are not available for us to choose. We did not choose our parents, hair color, intelligence, temperament, height, shoe size, where we were born, our race, etc. We are not robots - that gives us too much credit. We (all men) are clay in the hands of a benevolent Potter. That's what the Bible says anyway.
"Receiving" in the Greek New Testament in this case is passive, not active.
Abraham's choice had a cause. It (faith) was credited to him -not the act of choosing. I will have to check the syntax on that to be sure - no time at the moment. Paul's choice had a cause. Acknowledging this cause is one of the points to be considered on this thread I think. What was the first cause? Why did God go to great lengths for Paul (knocking off a horse, blinding, healing, personal appearance by Christ, etc.) and not with Joe Blow down the street or Cindy Hussein in Iraq?
I am intimately acquainted with the free will decision doctrine that is common to sects of Christianity, Judaism and Islam as well as to other belief systems. I don't see support for it as being true, but I understand it. So, I would say it is by God's grace that we receive faith rather than by my act. Grace is grace. Works are works.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 24, 2002, 11:12:06 pm
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[quote author=ThorAss link=board=3;threadid=927;start=24#9816 date=1038194036]
When you buy the second lottery ticket, you're saying that the numbers on the first ticket might be wrong. Well, if the numbers on the first ticket might be wrong, then the numbers on the second ticket might be wrong. Better not buy the second ticket. Too late for the first, already bought that. Maybe I'll give it to a waitress in loo of a tip especially if she looks like Sandra Bullock and there's some chance of docking. :-*
[/quote]
no i think that when you have two baskets that only one of them can be filled and you know that you and your relationship with 'The One Above' are what will determine whether any basket gets filled, then having two doesn't add to your chances of getting either of them filled.
if you are going to get it, one is enough and if you are not going to get it, then all of the baskets would not be enough.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 24, 2002, 11:15:30 pm
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The concept of free choice is one of the hardest to examine thoroughly. from our point of view it looks one way and from the point of view of the non-time bound 'The One Above' it looks like a play that has been seen for the first time and for the millionth time at the same time.
beam me up scottie.
i will try to prepare a piece on free choice in the future.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 24, 2002, 11:35:27 pm
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[quote author=Takachi link=board=3;threadid=927;start=24#9774 date=1038180425]
Wonderful thread Torah Man - thanks and a couple of related thoughts.
In our modern thinking we speak of "good" deeds, a good man, and many other uses of that word good! In fact, the word good has its origin in Godly - that is, good was by definition something sourced from God. Our language has become so bastardized that good has taken on an independent meaning implying that something can be good and yet not sourced from God. ...[/quote]
the english language is not the original language of creation so it does not matter how it has changed.
the root word for good is 'tov' and is first used in the beginning when G-d created this and saw that is was good. (sorry for the quick non-quote) The root of the word is not related to g-dly, sorry.
good and bad have more to do with being true to our purpose. we are all created to perform in a certain way. The Torah (bible, scriptures, etc.) is the owner's manual on how to be a human being. you should do these things and you should not do these other things. the consequences for non-compliance are not always readily plain to see for us plain people.
story:
a person buys a new computer and brings it home. he opens the owner's manual and reads, "do not place the computer in the bathtub full of water." he says to himself, "i paid good money for this computer and it is mine and if i want to put it in the water i certainly will." he places it in the water and later brings it out and plugs it in and it goes toast.
we spend our lives thinking that we are in charge of our lives and our destinies and we ignore the owner's manual that was given to us in order for us to get the most out of our time in this plane.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Takachi on November 25, 2002, 12:01:56 am
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Can't argue with you because I know I will lose. But let me say the declaration by the Creator that creation was good meant precisely that it fulfilled His purpose and was sourced in Him. The fall was to design a "good" purposed and sourced in other than Him, that is to say, purposed and sourced in the wisdom of Adam independent of the wisdom of G-d. Thats my point, that assigning goodness to something sourced and purposed counter to Him or His purpose cannot be called good. Thanks for bearing with me.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 25, 2002, 12:15:12 am
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[quote author=Takachi link=board=3;threadid=927;start=24#9837 date=1038200516]
Can't argue with you because I know I will lose. But let me say the declaration by the Creator that creation was good meant precisely that it fulfilled His purpose and was sourced in Him. The fall was to design a "good" purposed and sourced in other than Him, that is to say, purposed and sourced in the wisdom of Adam independent of the wisdom of G-d. Thats my point, that assigning goodness to something sourced and purposed counter to Him or His purpose cannot be called good. Thanks for bearing with me.
[/quote]
firstly, we are not in a win or lose dialogue here.
secondly, you are right, i was just adding some light. i was clarifying the relationship of the word good and the word g-dly.
during the seven days of creation, G-d pronounced each day good except for one.
on the second day of creation he created division and that day was not called good. it's good was moved to the third day where good was used twice.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Takachi on November 25, 2002, 12:27:29 am
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It would be a feast to learn from you!
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 25, 2002, 12:39:04 am
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[quote author=Takachi link=board=3;threadid=927;start=36#9842 date=1038202049]
It would be a feast to learn from you!
[/quote]
this is about learning from each other. it is happening as we speak (type)
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Hypertiger on November 25, 2002, 12:49:21 am
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torah man your a hit...
hope my post doesn't jinx the thread... :
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Duke on November 25, 2002, 10:09:32 am
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Torah man,
You asked that I put my reply here, so here it is.
Glad, Torah,
Sorry but I can't go along with you on this one.
Torah's comment:
"Instead I now say, Well 'The One Above', if You want me to give that extra charity; if You want me to be able to help those people who need help; if You want me to serve you without pain, then You better fill these baskets. I have done all I can do about it and now it is Your turn. I am going to spend some time with my wife, my children, and my friends. And by the way, I have lots of new friends I have found on this web site http://www.capitalstool.com and they also need their baskets filled."
The concept of praying for money has always left me cold. "Dear 'The One Above', if you help me in the stock market and let me gain me a million dollars I will do your will and give my 10% and help out the poor."
I think praying for his healing and our salvation and those things we cannot control is proper. Praying for things we can control is improper. To make money all we really have to do is work harder and smarter and the money will come. Get a second job or study market action more will probably do the trick. IP for Doc's dad is the proper avenue for prayer. For Christians the Lord's prayer talks about 'daily bread', not money. In fact, like most important things in the Bible, they are a blessing or a curse. Money is one. The 'Promised Land was another. Be careful what you pray for. You just might get it.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Takachi on November 25, 2002, 10:23:30 am
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The issue is not "praying for money" or not. The issue is: Where are my attentions.
If I look to my Creator for all my provision, then I look to Him for the excess enabling for the provision to others. We look to him for Daily Bread and presuming His will that I provide for others less fortunate, should I not also look to Him for that. The problem comes in distinguishing Daily Bread from Daily excess. Grace as bread is only dispensed as needed.
Having I said that, I also believe Him when He says....."Oh the plans I have for you, not to harm you, but to prosper you" - paraphrased.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 25, 2002, 12:05:27 pm
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divergence does exist in the teachings of the main religions.
when you get that everything that comes to you at every moment of the day is coming from 'The One Above' then all prayers are about receiving something from Him.
Provoking thought:
The natural state of the universe is non-existance. 'The One Above' continually, moment by moment, pours His createive energy into the universe to create it the way we see it. If 'The One Above' stopped creating, the universe would revert to nothingness.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Duke on November 25, 2002, 02:38:19 pm
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Sweef,
It sounds like you are commenting on Ephesians 2:8-9 where it says:
"8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast." (NIV)
At least one of the Christian denominations (Baptist) uses these verses to PROVE that we are saved by FAITH alone. Of course it doesn't say that. At a stretch one can say it implies that. What it says is that we are saved by GRACE, it is a gift of God. Both the Hebrew and Christian religions believe that only God can forgive sin and in the resurrection some will go to glory and others will be condemed. Both religions state there is a holy book with the names of the saved. John 5: 28-29, Revelation 21: 12-13, Daniel 12: 1-2.
There are hundreds and possibly thousands of denominations that have different ideas on what criteria God uses to "write our names in the book" but I maintain it is God's grace that saves us. As the verses say, "not our works." That said, I still think we must obey God's commands so we don't give up the gift. (My opinion) We can't be pious in church and raise hell the rest of the week. It doesn't work that way.
This discussion and ones like it have atomized the worship of God into hundreds of fragments all telling their parishioners that the church down the street is teaching lies. As far as I know the Christian, Jewish, and Islamic religions are all worshipping the same God and yet we have been fighting and hating each other for centuries because of our approach. It is somehow "God's will" tha we do horrible things to each other. If you believe there is a devil, his divide and conquer strategy is working fine.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Threadbear on November 25, 2002, 03:52:25 pm
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Takachi, My parents were atheists who forced me to go to Sunday school so they could be alone for obvious reasons, at least once a week. This raises some interesting theological issues, about goodly or godly intent. I went along with it because I liked colouring and arguing with the teacher about the holy trinity. They'd say, you know, its God, the son and the holy ghost. You know, get it? Three gods in one. It sounded like a double mint twins commercial. What surprised me at the time, was how their own belief needed consensual support. An eight year old not understanding really shook them up.
Doc, Good deed are their own rewards. Don't sell the hereafter short though. If you approach it from a scientific angle, there seems to actually be something there. People who are stoned cold unconscious, and clinically dead, report leaving their bodies, travelling around the hospital and accurately reporting birds eye views of events and things they couldn't have known otherwise. The individuals who are the best proponents of a life after death are cardiologists and others who have inadvertantly played a shamanic role by shocking these "travellers" back to life. They are convinced something intriguing and life affirming, in the truest sense, is going on.
Pigeon Drop, As far as the over the top "smarter than thou" tone of the board, I can only add, Man, does it ever take one to know one. And as Dame Edna says "I mean that in the kindest way". ;D
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Takachi on November 25, 2002, 04:48:35 pm
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[quote author=torah man link=board=3;threadid=927;start=36#9891 date=1038243927]
when you get that everything that comes to you at every moment of the day is coming from 'The One Above' then all prayers are about receiving something from Him.
Provoking thought:
The naturarl state of the universe is non-existance. 'The One Above' continually, moment by moment, pours His createive energy into the universe to create it the way we see it. If 'The One Above' stopped creating, the universe would revert to nothingness.
[/quote]
Beautifully put! I've tried to explain it to people as the mathmatics of the universe continually flowing out of "The Word," ultimately Himself.
I'm continually amazed at people who tell me they pray, but don't believe in miracles......what would be the point?
Threadbare, I understand exactly what you're saying, but it doesn't eliminate the fact that something is or is not true. That said, I constantly grieve over what kids are told in SS. It is truly a miracle that anyone survives as a believer in anything with the stuff that gets thrown out to little minds.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Sigmoid Friend on November 25, 2002, 05:08:41 pm
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I like Ike.
Rev. Ike, that is. Pray for Prosperity, he preaches.
Send in those dollars for salvation.
http://www.revike.org/
Point of the trading game: Try to take their money before they take ours.
Amen.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Charmin on November 25, 2002, 05:13:50 pm
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I was looking for "buy low and sell high" in the text of scripture but haven't found it yet - even though its human to buy high and sell low. Without Doc I have done mostly the latter.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Duke on November 25, 2002, 06:43:06 pm
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Sigmoid,
Is Rev. Ike the guy that tells people if they send in money God will repay them 10 fold or 100 fold because the Bible says so? If so, I think he is every bid as devout as Jim Bakker and Tammy.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DogBoy on November 25, 2002, 09:22:19 pm
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I'd like to pose this question:
If you feel you've been given a gift of understanding nations and politics and having a sort of surreal insight into the future of the world is it a sin to trade on that beleif ?
I've had this feeling for a long time but in the last few years it's manifested itself in an extra-ordinary way.
I've gained some insights in the way nations and the movers and shakers in the world work and so far I've proven to myself that my insights are 100% correct. In the last 2 years since I recosnized a certain set of trends manifesting themselves in the world I've been amazed at how well everything comes together.
If I'm correct (and I can only guess that I will be because of the last 2 years) the US will not even exist as a nation in 2-3 years. It will be a useless wreckage a lot like the Titanic.
Now don't start yelling at me a bunch of crap about being un-American because my Dad and Brother both fought in wars and my mother was a direct descendent of a Mayflower family.
Israel will temporarily disappear and then re-appear by the power of God and everyone on the planet will recognize this instantly. It will be a holy nation just like in the Old Testament.
The strongest feeling I've had is that the movers and shakers in the world today who are trying to consolidate their power over the earth are totally un-godly people and God himself will destroy them before they can succeed.
The Muslims are just tools of God that are being used as a sort of judgement against the un-godly nations of the world. If man wasn't ungodly then there would be no muslim terrorists.
When people turn back to the Creator the Muslim threat will vanish like so much fog clearing in the sun's rays.
The WAT or any man made means will not defeat the muslims and the millions of other crazies bent on destroying civilization. If you believe that the WAT is going to protect you then you are grossly incorrect.
The US will be brought to the brink of disaster and a moment of decision will come for America to either change our ways or lose everything.
Unfortunately I feel my fellow countrymen are too far gone to turn back, too full of pride to admit their errors.
If the US were to turn to God tomorrow the muslims would shrink and dissapear and there would be no more need to worry about terrorist threats anymore.
But until people realize that there's no hope in trusting man to solves man's problems. It's impossible. It's like asking a broken radio to fix itself.
Only prayer and spritual means can solve the world's present problems. Man cannot hope to do this by himself.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Sigmoid Friend on November 25, 2002, 09:42:39 pm
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[quote author=Duke link=board=3;threadid=927;start=48#9929 date=1038267786]
Sigmoid,
Is Rev. Ike the guy that tells people if they send in money God will repay them 10 fold or 100 fold because the Bible says so? If so, I think he is every bid as devout as Jim Bakker and Tammy.
[/quote]
Yep, he's da man. I'd forgotten about the 10x or 100x repayment thing, but now that you mention it jogs my failing memory. Someone (as in "the local DA") must have put the kabosh on the 10x or 100x "repayment" scheme, since Ike's website underplays the financial success side of things compared to the old days. Rev. Ike used to be much more upfront with the "send me the money" gospel as the path to success. Ike must be mellowing with age--or just trying to stay out of the pokey.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Hemroid on November 25, 2002, 10:12:54 pm
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Hey Doc
Little off the subject but.... I was speaking with my higher power and we were wondering if you could put the shorter term intraday projections in a yellow box similar to the longer term projections.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 25, 2002, 10:47:10 pm
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dogboy,
you got a lot of it right. if you feel that you have received some insight, please share it with us. in these times, it is supposed to be filled with normal people, like you and me, who will receive these insights.
right now we are in a serious converging triangle, to use some technical analysis on the world situation.
it is only when the people of the world recognize that only 'The One Above' can fix the situation that the situation will get fixed.
many of the prophesies from thousands of years ago are coming to pass right now. there have always beens alternate paths that could be walked to get to the same end game so to speak.
it is said that the time of the mesianic redemption will come as a suprise to a person. it then explains that the kind of suprise will be like the suprise of finding a treasure, for the person who was looking forward to the redemption and doing whatever he could to hellp achieve it. for the person who was hiding from the truth, the suprise will be like the suprise of finding a poisonous snake under a rock. (loosely paraphrased)
we have a lot to say about how we will be suprised. we say it with our actions and our words.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: DogBoy on November 25, 2002, 11:51:13 pm
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Torah. I never thought I'd get into sharing spiritual things on this site.
Doc has built a great place and spirituality is such a powerful and misunderstood thing I'd hate to see it get messed up.
I'm not Jewish but I love the Jewish people of the Old Testament and have seen that "touch of God" in many Jewish friends I've had over the years.
I hope that no matter what trials come our way we can be friends and share a common hope in a very bright future for man after this period of trouble has passed.
Peace and let's make some money to help pay our bills and help family and friends survive what's ahead.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 26, 2002, 12:57:03 pm
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[quote author=torah man link=board=3;threadid=927;start=36#9891 date=1038243927]
The natural state of the universe is non-existance. 'The One Above' continually, moment by moment, pours His createive energy into the universe to create it the way we see it. If 'The One Above' stopped creating, the universe would revert to nothingness.
[/quote]
Nobody had a problem with this?? that one usually get someone to ask a question.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: Hypertiger on November 26, 2002, 01:07:03 pm
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Basically that is right and even science has shown that is the case, but the scientific community usually leaves out the part about 'The One Above' or around or within or everywhere... I don't think they will come up with an equation to prove or disprove the existance of why existence exists...
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 27, 2002, 06:47:15 am
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Someone mentioned on the mark to market virtually board last night about praying for the market to go down.
i am definitely praying for the direction of my plays which is puts and gold.
but the most important thing to do is give up being in control of your money and trades. take the input from all of the sources, including of course Doc, and then make your moves. it is when we stop being responsible for which way it goes that it goes our way.
trade safe and be extremely well.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 27, 2002, 06:49:08 am
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The Lubavitcher Rebbe once said when asked about Thanksgiving, whenever many people on the same day all get together to thank G-d for the blessings and bounty that they have, it is a Good Holiday. (not an exact quote)
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: AssMaster on November 27, 2002, 09:48:05 pm
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Not being the religious type, but as spiritual as possible (don't ask) - I wonder if it is unseemly to pray for something for yourself when it might adversely affect so many other people.
Like "Oh Lord, let my crash puts go in the money." Would not the side-effect of a crash be to to decimate a lot of people who probably never did a rotten thing to anyone, other than buying PCLN.
Would an just higher power be likely to engineer a fed-induced melt-up just to teach you a lesson in humility and selflessness? Does this vary from one faith to another?
Is it wrong to go to church, temple, etc. more to make business contacts than to worship?
I'm just a curious fellow, you see. Anyway, what do you think?
I apologize in advance if my questions seem offensive.
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Title: Re:What is really happening??
Post by: torah man on November 27, 2002, 11:35:54 pm
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if the market were to tank back to set a new low or even match the oct low, who would be hurt.
the people holding losing positions would not sell just like they held last time.
some here feel that the next big down will lead to chaos etc.
if it does, it will be because chaos is what is required.
if not, then the holders will ride it back up again.
everything is in cycles. i remember, not too many years ago trying to buy a house when the owners did not realize that their property value had halved and what their neighbor had received the year before was no longer a valid price.
humility and selflessness?? i have a permanent enrollment in all offered classes on these topics.
i pray three times a day, and i like to do it in a synagogue as often as i can. on a holiday or shabbos (the sabbath), it is not ok to conduct business or discuss business, etc. on a weekday, during prayers, it is also not ok to talk, period.