The independant media has a few stories to tell, The first sorty is about Florida 2000...
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm
these are some of the 2004 stories now coming out...
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/what_happened_in_ohio.php
http://www.tnimc.org/newswire/display/3347/index.php
http://www.nature.com/news/2004/041101/full/041101-10.html
Full Version: The FIX was in!
In the four years since the yr2000 voter fraud occurred, I would expect
that the techniques to accomplish the same thing have become more sophisticated.
We, as a Nation, regardless of Party or persuasion must insist that every vote be
counted, that paper ballots and methods of providing paper trails for recounts
be established across our fair land, that the voting methodology be so transparent
that there can be no question of fraud.
As long as the voting systems are computerized, they are open to corruption in
so many ways that paper ballots are not.
Some times, the oldest and simplest ways are best.
I voted on a paper ballot with a marking pen and fed it into a scanner that tallied
the vote. It was quick and it was easy and there was no long line. My county
which is usually Republican went Democrat this time.
Folks, if they can screw with the votes of the Blacks, Hispanics, etc then all that
we thought about our nation in terms of equality and equalness of persons
is just a bunch of crap. Somebody will need to haul down the Statue of Liberty.
Think about what she says:
Something like "give me your tired, your hungry, your poor......"
If that is a false promise, then let's at least have the integrity to be honest about it.
that the techniques to accomplish the same thing have become more sophisticated.
We, as a Nation, regardless of Party or persuasion must insist that every vote be
counted, that paper ballots and methods of providing paper trails for recounts
be established across our fair land, that the voting methodology be so transparent
that there can be no question of fraud.
As long as the voting systems are computerized, they are open to corruption in
so many ways that paper ballots are not.
Some times, the oldest and simplest ways are best.
I voted on a paper ballot with a marking pen and fed it into a scanner that tallied
the vote. It was quick and it was easy and there was no long line. My county
which is usually Republican went Democrat this time.
Folks, if they can screw with the votes of the Blacks, Hispanics, etc then all that
we thought about our nation in terms of equality and equalness of persons
is just a bunch of crap. Somebody will need to haul down the Statue of Liberty.
Think about what she says:
Something like "give me your tired, your hungry, your poor......"
If that is a false promise, then let's at least have the integrity to be honest about it.
This graph of the exit polls tells it like it is.
Exit polls Bush vs Kerry and paper vs. computer vote
Exit polls Bush vs Kerry and paper vs. computer vote
At first Floridians seemed to disapprove the slot machine issue in two FL counties.
Then the bills sponsor checked with ES&S the tallying company and low and behold a glitch in the software capping the vote was found. After the re-calc the issue passed.
This is just too much.
Slots measure scratches way to narrow approval
What number do you want to hear?
Then the bills sponsor checked with ES&S the tallying company and low and behold a glitch in the software capping the vote was found. After the re-calc the issue passed.
This is just too much.
Slots measure scratches way to narrow approval
What number do you want to hear?
| QUOTE (megabear @ Nov 5 2004, 05:37 PM) |
| This graph of the exit polls tells it like it is. Exit polls Bush vs Kerry and paper vs. computer vote |
Freakin' UFB--what a country--what a system.
Evidence Mounts That The Vote Was Hacked
Published on Saturday, November 6, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
When I spoke with Jeff Fisher this morning (Saturday, November 06, 2004), the Democratic candidate for the U.S. House of Representatives from Florida's 16th District said he was waiting for the FBI to show up.
Fisher has evidence, he says, not only that the Florida election was hacked, but of who hacked it and how. And not just this year, he said, but that these same people had previously hacked the Democratic primary race in 2002 so that Jeb Bush would not have to run against Janet Reno, who presented a real threat to Jeb, but instead against Bill McBride, who Jeb beat.
"It was practice for a national effort," Fisher told me.
And evidence is accumulating that the national effort happened on November 2, 2004 . . .
| QUOTE (depends @ Nov 5 2004, 02:01 PM) |
| At first Floridians seemed to disapprove the slot machine issue in two FL counties. Then the bills sponsor checked with ES&S the tallying company and low and behold a glitch in the software capping the vote was found. After the re-calc the issue passed. This is just too much. Slots measure scratches way to narrow approval What number do you want to hear? |
| QUOTE |
| The measure received yes votes on 94 percent of absentee ballots in Broward, but got yes votes on 64 percent of ballots cast by voters at the polls, Johnson said. |
The implication is that there are multiple levels of hacking ... both the raw input (fraudulent absentee votes) and the counting software were hacked.
Oo-ooh that smell
Can't ya smell that smell?
- Lynyrd Skynyrd
Also the programs may have been replaced ... will try to find that link again.
Meanwhile ...
Ralph Nader believes the Republican Party was able to "steal it before election day."
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=26346
Meanwhile ...
Ralph Nader believes the Republican Party was able to "steal it before election day."
http://ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=26346
Latest on the Ohio recount:
http://www.votecobb.org/
http://www.votecobb.org/
Now it's getting interesting...who may have done what...
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...0604madsen.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...0604madsen.html
QUOTE(mirac @ Dec 8 2004, 06:17 PM)
Now it's getting interesting...who may have done what...
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...0604madsen.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...0604madsen.html
Be careful what you believe in what you read. Black Box Voting has a new article on the Feeney Beeney red herring distraction.
Oh yes there is ample evidence of fraud - but some would like to throw you off track.
Scroll down a little to see this:
Why the Feeney vote-rigging story sounds like disinformation
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
In case you missed it:
'Dan Hamburg was a California congressman in the early 1990s. This week Hamburg and his wife have been part of a group watching the latest developments in the Ohio recount.
Columbus police arrested Hamburg and his wife, Carrie, Wednesday for trespassing after refusing to leave a private downtown building that houses the secretary's office.
The political activist and a small group with him said they wanted Blackwell to answer questions about voting problems from the November election. '
http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=...54&nav=LQlCTzoL
The police may have interfered in a legal public action in my view.
'Dan Hamburg was a California congressman in the early 1990s. This week Hamburg and his wife have been part of a group watching the latest developments in the Ohio recount.
Columbus police arrested Hamburg and his wife, Carrie, Wednesday for trespassing after refusing to leave a private downtown building that houses the secretary's office.
The political activist and a small group with him said they wanted Blackwell to answer questions about voting problems from the November election. '
http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=...54&nav=LQlCTzoL
The police may have interfered in a legal public action in my view.
CALL TO ACTION: ONE-DAY PROTEST STRIKE AND
DEMONSTRATIONS ON INAUGURATION DAY, JANUARY 20
The "election" that has sentenced the world to four more years of
the most right-wing government in US history is merely the most
glaring recent _expression of a global crisis of democracy. We
simply miss the point if we focus our outrage on the narrow
question of whether the election was stolen, lost through
incompetence or conceded too early. A process so dominated
by money and corporate interests is by definition
non-democratic. The fact that the choice in this election was
effectively limited to Kerry or Bush, excluding any real alternative
from the start, is only one symptom. As a whole, the US
electoral system is a screen spectacle, a mirage of democracy
that compels a minimum of pseudo-participation simply by its
monopoly over what passes for politics and public debate.
Capturing popular energy and channeling it into the dead-end of
hierarchical parties, it enforces an impoverishment of social
imagination and wages a war of attrition on the desire for real
change. Never has a power produced in this way been
legitimate. G.W. Bush's claims of a "popular mandate" are
mere propaganda in the crudest sense.
Every opportunity must be taken to contest the forms and
functioning of US-style "democracy." January 20, Inauguration
Day, is a moment of unavoidable vulnerability for the Bush
regime and is thus the first major opportunity to make it feel the
shakiness of its "mandate." We cannot of course expect other
governments to contest seriously the official results of a US
election. The power to do this belongs only to the global
multitude, to those who have the courage to create new forms of
egalitarian politics.
A real, transparent democratic voice from below can actively
demonstrate that lies and naked power do not constitute
legitimacy. Indeed, as has always been the case, only such a
voice - persistent, uncompromising and for-all - can stop the
destructive violence wreaked by antidemocratic states. And
today only such a voice can stop the Bush regime. Real
democracy is not the result of spectacular elections and
obscene expenditures. Instead, it emerges from direct collective
actions that dismantle the conditions for war-mongering,
economic and social violence, servitude and abasement. It
emerges wherever people work together to render impossible
endless militarization, state and non-state terrorism, and a
global regime of nations and borders that gives free passage to
capital while denying it to real people.
United for Peace and Justice, Not In Our Name, DC Anti-War
Network, Turn Your Back on Bush and other groups have called
for massive protests in Washington DC on "j20." We support
these calls, but are also convinced of the need for people to
organize protests right where they are. Blocked democracy is a
global problem, as this election in particular shows. Not only US
citizens but people everywhere are threatened by aggressive
US policies.
We therefore call for a one-day protest strike and
demonstrations across the United States and for marches on
US embassies in as many other countries as possible. We
know that for most people January 20 is a workday, and that
work conditions can vary drastically. We suggest people reach
out to others in their workplaces, campuses and neighborhoods
and either call in sick or walk out at noon on January 20.
College and university students can easily take a day off from
classes. Whether you then choose to join an organized protest
action or form a local affinity group of friends to organize an
action of your own, join us and others in the streets to reclaim
our power. We don't consent, and we won't obey! In the streets
for real democracy! Act together for real alternatives!
DEMONSTRATIONS ON INAUGURATION DAY, JANUARY 20
The "election" that has sentenced the world to four more years of
the most right-wing government in US history is merely the most
glaring recent _expression of a global crisis of democracy. We
simply miss the point if we focus our outrage on the narrow
question of whether the election was stolen, lost through
incompetence or conceded too early. A process so dominated
by money and corporate interests is by definition
non-democratic. The fact that the choice in this election was
effectively limited to Kerry or Bush, excluding any real alternative
from the start, is only one symptom. As a whole, the US
electoral system is a screen spectacle, a mirage of democracy
that compels a minimum of pseudo-participation simply by its
monopoly over what passes for politics and public debate.
Capturing popular energy and channeling it into the dead-end of
hierarchical parties, it enforces an impoverishment of social
imagination and wages a war of attrition on the desire for real
change. Never has a power produced in this way been
legitimate. G.W. Bush's claims of a "popular mandate" are
mere propaganda in the crudest sense.
Every opportunity must be taken to contest the forms and
functioning of US-style "democracy." January 20, Inauguration
Day, is a moment of unavoidable vulnerability for the Bush
regime and is thus the first major opportunity to make it feel the
shakiness of its "mandate." We cannot of course expect other
governments to contest seriously the official results of a US
election. The power to do this belongs only to the global
multitude, to those who have the courage to create new forms of
egalitarian politics.
A real, transparent democratic voice from below can actively
demonstrate that lies and naked power do not constitute
legitimacy. Indeed, as has always been the case, only such a
voice - persistent, uncompromising and for-all - can stop the
destructive violence wreaked by antidemocratic states. And
today only such a voice can stop the Bush regime. Real
democracy is not the result of spectacular elections and
obscene expenditures. Instead, it emerges from direct collective
actions that dismantle the conditions for war-mongering,
economic and social violence, servitude and abasement. It
emerges wherever people work together to render impossible
endless militarization, state and non-state terrorism, and a
global regime of nations and borders that gives free passage to
capital while denying it to real people.
United for Peace and Justice, Not In Our Name, DC Anti-War
Network, Turn Your Back on Bush and other groups have called
for massive protests in Washington DC on "j20." We support
these calls, but are also convinced of the need for people to
organize protests right where they are. Blocked democracy is a
global problem, as this election in particular shows. Not only US
citizens but people everywhere are threatened by aggressive
US policies.
We therefore call for a one-day protest strike and
demonstrations across the United States and for marches on
US embassies in as many other countries as possible. We
know that for most people January 20 is a workday, and that
work conditions can vary drastically. We suggest people reach
out to others in their workplaces, campuses and neighborhoods
and either call in sick or walk out at noon on January 20.
College and university students can easily take a day off from
classes. Whether you then choose to join an organized protest
action or form a local affinity group of friends to organize an
action of your own, join us and others in the streets to reclaim
our power. We don't consent, and we won't obey! In the streets
for real democracy! Act together for real alternatives!
QUOTE(depends @ Dec 8 2004, 08:02 PM)
QUOTE(mirac @ Dec 8 2004, 06:17 PM)
Now it's getting interesting...who may have done what...
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...0604madsen.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...0604madsen.html
Be careful what you believe in what you read. Black Box Voting has a new article on the Feeney Beeney red herring distraction.
Oh yes there is ample evidence of fraud - but some would like to throw you off track.
Scroll down a little to see this:
Why the Feeney vote-rigging story sounds like disinformation
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
Thanx depends:
Did write 'may' to discuss what the article implied...looking for names to who did what. I understand what blackboxvoting.org is into, and what they are trying to do(good stuff). In fact, she was on Art Bell several times before the elections and with my reading on Diebold etc. everything was pretty well indicated as to what was going to be attempted. Hope you guys are sending her some coin at the very least. There was some preliminary discussing before the election and I tried to warn people on the board, hoping that more people would become more proactive on this very issue. It's your democracy or republic you should be fighting for. The problem then became that the American population seem to care less when evidence clearly indicates voting discrepancies in so many states. At least the the Ukrainians are fighting for justice. Hell. I am not an American, and I have spent more time on this issue than most Americans on this board. This is your battle and everyone thinks that discussing the matter makes the difference-almost too late from my perspective. And the effort by the American citizenery has been less than half asssed so far! Read the following little piece and tell me how well your freedoms are being protected.
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2640414
And get this point about the article. It implies that your government can reach into any country it chooses to a detain whomever they want, whenever they want. You have bigger things to worry about now-than a possible disinformation piece! And if there is a tinge of anger that comes through in this post, it is not directed at you specifically-just can't believe what America has become and it IS frustrating.
QUOTE(lb @ Dec 10 2004, 09:49 AM)
CALL TO ACTION: ONE-DAY PROTEST STRIKE AND
DEMONSTRATIONS ON INAUGURATION DAY, JANUARY 20
The "election" that has sentenced the world to four more years of
the most right-wing government in US history is merely the most
glaring recent _expression of a global crisis of democracy. We
simply miss the point if we focus our outrage on the narrow
question of whether the election was stolen, lost through
incompetence or conceded too early. A process so dominated
by money and corporate interests is by definition
non-democratic. The fact that the choice in this election was
effectively limited to Kerry or Bush, excluding any real alternative
from the start, is only one symptom. As a whole, the US
electoral system is a screen spectacle, a mirage of democracy
that compels a minimum of pseudo-participation simply by its
monopoly over what passes for politics and public debate.
Capturing popular energy and channeling it into the dead-end of
hierarchical parties, it enforces an impoverishment of social
imagination and wages a war of attrition on the desire for real
change. Never has a power produced in this way been
legitimate. G.W. Bush's claims of a "popular mandate" are
mere propaganda in the crudest sense.
Every opportunity must be taken to contest the forms and
functioning of US-style "democracy." January 20, Inauguration
Day, is a moment of unavoidable vulnerability for the Bush
regime and is thus the first major opportunity to make it feel the
shakiness of its "mandate." We cannot of course expect other
governments to contest seriously the official results of a US
election. The power to do this belongs only to the global
multitude, to those who have the courage to create new forms of
egalitarian politics.
A real, transparent democratic voice from below can actively
demonstrate that lies and naked power do not constitute
legitimacy. Indeed, as has always been the case, only such a
voice - persistent, uncompromising and for-all - can stop the
destructive violence wreaked by antidemocratic states. And
today only such a voice can stop the Bush regime. Real
democracy is not the result of spectacular elections and
obscene expenditures. Instead, it emerges from direct collective
actions that dismantle the conditions for war-mongering,
economic and social violence, servitude and abasement. It
emerges wherever people work together to render impossible
endless militarization, state and non-state terrorism, and a
global regime of nations and borders that gives free passage to
capital while denying it to real people.
United for Peace and Justice, Not In Our Name, DC Anti-War
Network, Turn Your Back on Bush and other groups have called
for massive protests in Washington DC on "j20." We support
these calls, but are also convinced of the need for people to
organize protests right where they are. Blocked democracy is a
global problem, as this election in particular shows. Not only US
citizens but people everywhere are threatened by aggressive
US policies.
We therefore call for a one-day protest strike and
demonstrations across the United States and for marches on
US embassies in as many other countries as possible. We
know that for most people January 20 is a workday, and that
work conditions can vary drastically. We suggest people reach
out to others in their workplaces, campuses and neighborhoods
and either call in sick or walk out at noon on January 20.
College and university students can easily take a day off from
classes. Whether you then choose to join an organized protest
action or form a local affinity group of friends to organize an
action of your own, join us and others in the streets to reclaim
our power. We don't consent, and we won't obey! In the streets
for real democracy! Act together for real alternatives!
DEMONSTRATIONS ON INAUGURATION DAY, JANUARY 20
The "election" that has sentenced the world to four more years of
the most right-wing government in US history is merely the most
glaring recent _expression of a global crisis of democracy. We
simply miss the point if we focus our outrage on the narrow
question of whether the election was stolen, lost through
incompetence or conceded too early. A process so dominated
by money and corporate interests is by definition
non-democratic. The fact that the choice in this election was
effectively limited to Kerry or Bush, excluding any real alternative
from the start, is only one symptom. As a whole, the US
electoral system is a screen spectacle, a mirage of democracy
that compels a minimum of pseudo-participation simply by its
monopoly over what passes for politics and public debate.
Capturing popular energy and channeling it into the dead-end of
hierarchical parties, it enforces an impoverishment of social
imagination and wages a war of attrition on the desire for real
change. Never has a power produced in this way been
legitimate. G.W. Bush's claims of a "popular mandate" are
mere propaganda in the crudest sense.
Every opportunity must be taken to contest the forms and
functioning of US-style "democracy." January 20, Inauguration
Day, is a moment of unavoidable vulnerability for the Bush
regime and is thus the first major opportunity to make it feel the
shakiness of its "mandate." We cannot of course expect other
governments to contest seriously the official results of a US
election. The power to do this belongs only to the global
multitude, to those who have the courage to create new forms of
egalitarian politics.
A real, transparent democratic voice from below can actively
demonstrate that lies and naked power do not constitute
legitimacy. Indeed, as has always been the case, only such a
voice - persistent, uncompromising and for-all - can stop the
destructive violence wreaked by antidemocratic states. And
today only such a voice can stop the Bush regime. Real
democracy is not the result of spectacular elections and
obscene expenditures. Instead, it emerges from direct collective
actions that dismantle the conditions for war-mongering,
economic and social violence, servitude and abasement. It
emerges wherever people work together to render impossible
endless militarization, state and non-state terrorism, and a
global regime of nations and borders that gives free passage to
capital while denying it to real people.
United for Peace and Justice, Not In Our Name, DC Anti-War
Network, Turn Your Back on Bush and other groups have called
for massive protests in Washington DC on "j20." We support
these calls, but are also convinced of the need for people to
organize protests right where they are. Blocked democracy is a
global problem, as this election in particular shows. Not only US
citizens but people everywhere are threatened by aggressive
US policies.
We therefore call for a one-day protest strike and
demonstrations across the United States and for marches on
US embassies in as many other countries as possible. We
know that for most people January 20 is a workday, and that
work conditions can vary drastically. We suggest people reach
out to others in their workplaces, campuses and neighborhoods
and either call in sick or walk out at noon on January 20.
College and university students can easily take a day off from
classes. Whether you then choose to join an organized protest
action or form a local affinity group of friends to organize an
action of your own, join us and others in the streets to reclaim
our power. We don't consent, and we won't obey! In the streets
for real democracy! Act together for real alternatives!
Good idea except it's too close to Superbowl...he says sarcastically.
Mirac, Where are you living?
I think nearly everyone on this board is really freaked out by the Diebold scam, but regardless of rigged elections, the entire process is so rotten that rigging the final vote finally matters. It's just the final nail in the coffin.
Whether Kerry or Bush got in hardly matters as they were virtually indistinguishable. "Democracy" has been a stage managed farce for a couple of decades-- pure theatre, if it wasn't, Dean would be president. It'll take a military coup to straighten it out and restore the constitution. F the repugs. and double F' the democrats. And God Bless the troops in Iraq who will one day lead the fight to get their country back.
I think nearly everyone on this board is really freaked out by the Diebold scam, but regardless of rigged elections, the entire process is so rotten that rigging the final vote finally matters. It's just the final nail in the coffin.
Whether Kerry or Bush got in hardly matters as they were virtually indistinguishable. "Democracy" has been a stage managed farce for a couple of decades-- pure theatre, if it wasn't, Dean would be president. It'll take a military coup to straighten it out and restore the constitution. F the repugs. and double F' the democrats. And God Bless the troops in Iraq who will one day lead the fight to get their country back.
Conyers hearing on Ohio vote fraud and voter suppression is now archived on C Span. It is three hours and worth every minute of it. One by one, Democratic Congressman stroll into the hearing , as the number of reps lending credence to the effort grows. The Committee goes to Ohio for onsite hearings this week. The hearing was legally forced to be unofficial, since the Republican Chair of the Judiciary Committee refused to acknowledge it. Testimony from atttorneys and reps of voting rights groups. The lawyers are utterly amazing guys and on top of what really happened in Ohio. But only Conyers and the committee have the power to seize the computers. They can also refuse to seat the Ohio electors if fraud can be proven. Even now the evidence of the fix is pretty strong. Stay tuned.
PS - Jeff Fisher is the last in the line of public questions - end of the video
PS - Jeff Fisher is the last in the line of public questions - end of the video
QUOTE(threadbare @ Dec 10 2004, 08:37 PM)
Mirac, Where are you living?
I think nearly everyone on this board is really freaked out by the Diebold scam, but regardless of rigged elections, the entire process is so rotten that rigging the final vote finally matters. It's just the final nail in the coffin.
Whether Kerry or Bush got in hardly matters as they were virtually indistinguishable. "Democracy" has been a stage managed farce for a couple of decades-- pure theatre, if it wasn't, Dean would be president. It'll take a military coup to straighten it out and restore the constitution. F the repugs. and double F' the democrats. And God Bless the troops in Iraq who will one day lead the fight to get their country back.
I think nearly everyone on this board is really freaked out by the Diebold scam, but regardless of rigged elections, the entire process is so rotten that rigging the final vote finally matters. It's just the final nail in the coffin.
Whether Kerry or Bush got in hardly matters as they were virtually indistinguishable. "Democracy" has been a stage managed farce for a couple of decades-- pure theatre, if it wasn't, Dean would be president. It'll take a military coup to straighten it out and restore the constitution. F the repugs. and double F' the democrats. And God Bless the troops in Iraq who will one day lead the fight to get their country back.
London, Ontario, Canada
Military Coup may happen. I personally see the eventual brakeup of America and Canada if the world economy collapses.
Some vote videos.
Was The 2004 Election Legitimate?
AMY GOODMAN and JOHN BONIFAZ - attny for green party.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/10/1450216
An excerpt from this record of the complete hearing on CSPAN.
Select 'House Forum on Ohio Election Voting Procedures'
http://www.cspan.org/search/basic.asp?Resu...=25&image1.y=10
good stuff here.
Was The 2004 Election Legitimate?
AMY GOODMAN and JOHN BONIFAZ - attny for green party.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/10/1450216
An excerpt from this record of the complete hearing on CSPAN.
Select 'House Forum on Ohio Election Voting Procedures'
http://www.cspan.org/search/basic.asp?Resu...=25&image1.y=10
good stuff here.
Another site with the vote stuff on it:
http://www.gulufuture.com/
http://www.gulufuture.com/
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