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Full Version: Daily Digger - Friday April 15, '05
Stool Pigeons Wire Message Board > Stock Market Message Board > Stool's Gold- Gold and Precious Metals Forum
Charmin
Where oh where is Ike now
Why did he leave us hear a alone
We searched the world over
as the PM stocks rolled over
and pfffffffffff they were gone....

85
http://www.financialsense.com/Market/iossif/2005/0329.html


The XAU broke sharply under the 91 level. Basis the Weekly chart, Fibonacci Cluster Support comes in at 85.71
http://www.feargreed.com

user posted image
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/b.../2005/0414.html
ThorAss
Yes, Ike! "Rull your head in, mate!"

Yes all that TA crap is wonderful for picking bottoms. No wonder so many people have become fabulously wealthy as a result of using it that way. Those people who wait for the moving averages to turn up are just too conservative. No, get ready to buy while the stocks are going down and there's complacancy about because everyone "knows" gold has to rise.

Presently working on a new timeliness indicator for gold stocks. Will come back if I get anything which backtests well.
Charmin
gold in Euros broke to a four month high
http://dvtechtalk.com/April/April15.htm
Charmin
XAU green
buck breaking down from 85 area - 84 trading range lows

in a weak market buy the retest not the first rally
Charmin
WTZ at monthly, weekly daily suport area $8
dharma
the fear greed dude

The XAU broke sharply under the 91 level. Basis the Weekly chart, Fibonacci Cluster Support comes in at 85.71
i am still thinking the lows will come in around the lunar eclipse 4/24. the dolar has stiff overhead resistance, i think the resistance holds dharma

Charmin
silver acting well
gold leading

Was Snow on the TV with a frown?
ThorAss
MEOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! Splat!

BOING!
ThorAss
Maybe soon. And maybe sooner than I think.

Zill
Charmin
hey if not gold then buy some WTR - water
Hadjin
Uncle ..Uncle...

Medic ..Medic..

OK, I capitulate.. I'm done.. I'm out....


ps... maybe just saying it will make it be the bottom... wink.gif
yellowfish
Charts looking better at the close to me.

Looking/praying for a bounce next week. tongue.gif

CDE closes green. I tried to add some at the close but did not get filled. dry.gif
ThorAss
This seems to be working. Not done yet. Have put together a list of 95 gold miners which actually includes 1 gold ETF and one or 2 gold funds. Then I go for a % bullish stocks based on my secret recipe of 11 different herbs and spices. (Actually it's braindeadly simple.) We are now plumbing the depths of hell at about 3%. That in itself is not bullish and there is no reason why we couldn't drop to zero then stay at low levels for years. It's called a bear market. Back later.
ThorAss
The cast consists of 15 of the ever volatile microcaps like GBR and SLGLF,
30 Juniors like CAU, GBN, RANGY, VGZ,
29 Midcaps like BGO, CBJ, DROOY, EGO, GOLD, GSS, HL,
18 Largecaps like AEM, FCX, GG, GLG, and
3 Megacaps AAUK, NEM, ABX.

traderfromhell
QUOTE(ThorAss @ Apr 15 2005, 04:27 PM)
This seems to be working. Not done yet. Have put together a list of 95 gold miners which actually includes 1 gold ETF and one or 2 gold funds. Then I go for a % bullish stocks based on my secret recipe of 11 different herbs and spices. (Actually it's braindeadly simple.) We are now plumbing the depths of hell at about 3%. That in itself is not bullish and there is no reason why we couldn't drop to zero then stay at low levels for years. It's called a bear market. Back later.
*



That's my point Thor. We all know if given enough time we go higher. Maybe not. Look at all the charts from a bearish perspective and put the fundamentals aside. Shows of Weakness is what I see not strength. We're getting close to a buyable panic out bottom maybe as early as Monday but I am giving the Bear his due. The miners have sukked since December '03. That's a long time. I'll buy the break but I won't overstay my welcome.
Ageka
I felt like selling Harmony and Kinross in despair
This must be a bottom because the bottom makes me feel desparate
On the other hand I feel very confortable holding gold coins
ThorAss
Well put tfh.

Yes, of course there is no reason why we couldn't be experiencing a cyclical bear within the context of a secular bull in the PMS. Historically the bearish periods have often been very long compared to short sharp bullish periods. So odds are at any given time it's a bear gold market.

My main point is that one should buy when the timeliness turns positive and remain long only so long as the condition lasts. One may get whipsawed at times but I'm sure this is better than sitting thru long declines. The problem to me is merely is the definition of timeliness with a focus on timeframe.

ThorAss
I'm talking specifically about the miners. Gold to my way of thinking isn't a market. Sure it's traded like a market, but since it is the only true money (if not really a monetary unit) then it is the benchmark around which everything else revolves. ie Gold doesn't move up or down vs the $, it's the other way around. One should view everything priced in units of gold but it's just too much work doing all the conversions out of fiat.
traderfromhell
QUOTE(ThorAss @ Apr 15 2005, 05:16 PM)
I'm talking specifically about the miners. Gold to my way of thinking isn't a market. Sure it's traded like a market, but since it is the only true money (if not really a monetary unit) then it is the benchmark around which everything else revolves. ie Gold doesn't move up or down vs the $, it's the other way around. One should view everything priced in units of gold but it's just too much work doing all the conversions out of fiat.
*




Own the metals regardless of "price". biggrin.gif
ThorAss
Agreed.

However, the amount of fiat your PMs can command varies and due to some collective madness it seems sometimes this amount even declines. However during certain periods when the amount of fiat which can be bought with gold is rising quickly then miners can make a profit. This in turn leads to a rise in the price of miners (relative to gold of course) which means, of course, that during these times it would be better to hold miners as profits can all be exchanged for more gold in the long run. And equally "of course" there are times that joining in whatever collective madness is afoot can lead to a bigger hoard later rather then just sitting comfortably on the one you have. However all of this requires a lot of hard work.
ThorAss
More on collective madness.

Ever wondered why copper has gone up by 250% in the same time that gold has gone up just a fraction of this? Then ask yourself, how much gold there is in your average house. No, not YOUR average house, I mean the building itself. How much copper? When this collective madness ends as it surely will, copper will plunge as the demand dries up. Copper is a commodity. But wait, I thought commodities were going to go higher?!? Maybe, but first comes asset deflation then when the "cure" kicks in, will come the bull market in inflation and that's when the miners will soar.
Ageka
At the end of this week the price and 65 ema and 200 ema did meet
in eurogold
So now we either go up or we forget the golden cross
Shares are orfull

Ageka
Gold in SA Rand looks a lot like gold in Euro

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?...=ZAR&amt=1&t=1y
Vitalsigns
QUOTE(ThorAss @ Apr 15 2005, 05:09 PM)
More on collective madness.

Ever wondered why copper has gone up by 250% in the same time that gold has gone up just a fraction of this? Then ask yourself, how much gold there is in your average house. No, not YOUR average house, I mean the building itself. How much copper? When this collective madness ends as it surely will, copper will plunge as the demand dries up. Copper is a commodity. But wait, I thought commodities were going to go higher?!? Maybe, but first comes asset deflation then when the "cure" kicks in, will come the bull market in inflation and that's when the miners will soar.
*




My thinming is that 2005-2006 will be the equivalent to commodities as 1987 was to the stock market . Most remember 1987 as A Crash but what it was really was an important time market within the larger Bull market and not the end . So too will this corrective phase of the Commodity bull . It is never easy and usually gets quite ugly and messy near the lows of each swing . Keeping a line on the horizon as to where this is really headed keeps one's emotions in check and allows one to buy when others become fearful and hysterical , and sell when others are maniacal.
Gold Majestic
MADNESS OF CROWDS

GOOBS - I HAFTA SAY THE DOLLAR LOOKS COOKED.

DOLLAR DOWN - GOLD UP - GOLD STOCKS????????????? GULP!

SWISSY READY FO RUMBLE!!!
DOLLAR READY FO TUMBLE!!!

GOOBER GETTIN HE ARSE KICKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! unsure.gif
Gold Majestic
Welp goobers - I'm tryin to remain optimistic and take the "GLASS HALF FOOOOL" approach!!!!!

The goooo news was that CoT Open Interest is rising again!!! Bodes well fo gold!!!!

The goooo news - commercials shorts have further to go!!!!

The baaad news - I'M IN GOLD STOCKS AND GETTIN MY ARSE KICKED LIKE THERE'S NO FREAKING TOMORROW!!!

The goooo news is MAYBE the XAU just wanted to fill the gap and MAYBE wants to go back up to 91 where I MAY or may not GET THE HELL OUT OF DODGE!!!!!

The goooo news is MAYBE we'll get a bounce in the broad markets to pull gold stocks up.

I've attached the "Glass Half FOOOOL" Cot chart for your perusal. Added my "BEST WISHES" to some charts cockroached from Dan Norcini.

Please gimme some GOOOOOOOO NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HELP ME MOMMA!!!!!!!!!!!

GOOBER OUT!!!!!!!!!! unsure.gif
ThorAss
I come back to it again and again. I see it on every chart in every thing. I don't want to add to your pain but I feel I must rehash it.

NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES HOLD OR BUY A STOCK WHICH HAS BROKEN SUPPORT UNLESS AND UNTIL IT COMPLETES ITS MOVE AND BEGINS A NEW UPTREND OR REGAINS A POSITION ABOVE SUPPORT.

Support (some call it ICE which is apt) is pretty easy to define as tops tell to be broad affairs. Bottoms tend to be short and sharp (a cycloid for the mathematically enclined). New uptrends can be defined it a broad sense with moving averages or the indicators of choice such as RSI and MACD. Do not trust in fundamentals, people lie. Do not trust in volume, it is tainted. Trust only in price. If stocks have low volume even price is iffy.

More: Never marry one side of any market. Marriage is a bond for life, a shackle and a weakness which others can exploit.

If you think there is manipulation in a market don't cry about it. Leave or learn how to exploit it.

Follow these simple rules and you will make money. Ignore them and you are at best gambling and most likely burning capital.

Anyway, still working on my PMS timeliness chart. It will take a little time to set up but once I get the backtesting infilled the maintenance will be easy. With my resource I can go back 384 market days. This takes us back 18 months. Another year back would have been better. But basically what I am seeing is the worst timeliness in 18 months. I will be back when I finish.
Old Habits
Gold Majestic - holding to 91 XAU shows great courage and conviction. smile.gif

Seriously, I don't follow charts much, but the charts I pulled on the HUI look about as Dover Sole as anytime in the past 3 years. So we ought to at least get a bounce in the next week or so to enable folks to get off the train.

Then again - we could bounce straight on up to XAU 155 like IKE said. laugh.gif
ThorAss
Taylor

I include this article as it mosts closely reflects my feelings and aids in my ASSessment of what to worry about and how to play it.

Basically patience is the key. And patience means preserving capital and waiting until the time is right. If these 2 principles are followed gains may be spectacular. But this may require a lot of patience. It may also involve some whipsawing. But if one buys at sensible points with sensible stops breakeven on the whips on average should be possible so that capital is preserved for "The Big One."

Bear (so to speak) with me and I will attempt to help in this process if I can.
Grot
Latest Grot Pictures biggrin.gif

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Gold Majestic
QUOTE(Old Habits @ Apr 17 2005, 11:23 AM)
Gold Majestic - holding to 91 XAU shows great courage and conviction. smile.gif

Seriously, I don't follow charts much, but the charts I pulled on the HUI look about as Dover Sole as anytime in the past 3 years. So we ought to at least get a bounce in the next week or so to enable folks to get off the train.

Then again - we could bounce straight on up to XAU 155 like IKE said. laugh.gif
*



"shows great conviction and courage"?
More like a deer frozen in the headlights of an oncoming Mack truck.

Seriously though, I'm a long term investor with the majority of my investments in a fundamentals driven, diversified core portfolio added to on "TA identified" dips. My "trading portfolio" suffers when I become too busy with other endeavors or just plain careless. Unfortunately, the more succesful I've become, the more careless I've been with my trading portfolio. Fortunately, in a bull market, mistakes are often forgiven in time.

Fundamentally, I've been in the camp for several years that sees a continuation of the growing deficits which is long-term dollar bearish. I see the increasing reliance of foreign central bank money inflows colliding with their higher commodity and energy import costs and diminishing national surpluses (Japan). This collision will produce rising long term rates negatively impacting stock and bond markets, the dollar, increased volatility and lead to debt-impaired economic recession, rising prices for certain kinds of goods and services, lower prices for assets affected by deflating bubbles such as certain categories of real estate, higher gold price / gold stock prices. Soon the Fed will talk up the deflation scare again bringing an end to the 1/4 point rate hikes and giving way to rate cuts once again.

Yes, energy/commodity prices are correcting but will remain high going forward as competition from 40% of the world's population living in China and India alone, and other emerging world economies continue to grow, consume and stockpile even if at reduced paces.
http://www.csis.org/programs/issues.htm

When the US consumes 6% more than it produces on a sustained basis and must rely on 2 billion a day from foreign CBs to inject primarily into our bond market to keep long rates from rising, our stock markets from falling, the dollar from free falling and commidity prices from soaring, you know America has a problem. A problem similar to the Stagflation of the 70s only this time much worse. My belief is that the majority of people don't change until they're forced to by necessity, i.e., no soft landing on this one. The fed has its hands tied and will try to minimize collateral damage at best. Inflows from foreign CBs are on the wane and after the short-term dollar short covering is over, the dollar will continue its decent.

I view the Gold Juniors as call options on gold in the ground, especially a diversified basket full of Canadians with reserves outside of Canada in relatively safe areas of the world. You get the best of both worlds, a strong Canadian currency hedge and low cost production.

Understand the fundamentals, expect price volatility, and sleep well at night.

Goober out cool.gif
Old Habits
Well said Majestic - I was teasing you about the courage. smile.gif

I am long term as well for just about all the same fundamental reasons you stated. This is going to require patience, and the sleeping is not going to be easy, especially in nasty corrections like this, which are a real test of one's conviction.

I'm starting to hear predictions now of HUI 150 and XAU 75, similar to the last time the we went throught this. I am concerned with the speed and depth of this decline, but some of this stuff is getting too cheap - especially in relation to the broad market.

Short term, either we bounce from around these levels or the POG starts to catch up with the miners and starts its' decline in earnest.

It will be interesting to see if we get a stick save in the broads tommorrow.
Charmin
just maybe it'll be over this week - 3 days and counting

or maybe the systems just shut down totally...
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