I understand that they are both excellent brands.
However, I really want to hear from wrxers which is better?

I know it's hard compare since they do not have only one set of irons but I just want to see which brand has overall better performance and quality.

Thank you

On looks alone, I like Fourteen. They have a couple new cb's out that look great.

another vote on the fourteens.. Thinking of getting the TC-550 forged irons from joe. has anyone try these irons yet?

another vote for Fourteens, 770 Forged look sweet

I own both. Miura for a player's club and Epon for more forgiveness. Not a really good comparison.

I've owned the Miura CB-301 and CB-202 this season, as well as recently purchased Epon AF-301.

I prefer the satin finish of the Miura irons. They are very durable and clean. The Epon's stock finish is a satin/mirror finish, but you have a choice of finish if you want fully customized irons.

Both irons are soft, but the Miura provided me with more direct feedback. I've tried Miura's in different shafts, and the soft, but solid feel was consistent. I've had to cycle through different shafts to achieve a satisfactory feel from my AF-301's (tried Black Gold, Wishon Series 5, Dynamic Gold S200 and GS75 steel).

Miura's have less offset, if that matters to you. It's very important to me, and I had to adjust to the amount of offset in the AF-301's. It was not an adjustment I expected to make.

Feel: Miura
Appearance: Tie
Options: Epon (Better customization, i.e. sole engraving, finish options, etc.)
Playability: Miura
Durability: Miura

Personally, the Miura's were a better overall purchase for me, which proved itself on the course. The Epon's are a lesson learned, a rather expensive one in my case.

Brian

in my opnion, miura is alot better than epon. he is the best at forging. and is the most well known in japan that's why he can charge ￥300,000 for a set and people will buy it.

I am playing the Miura CB202's this year with TT Tour Concept ( satin finished ) shafts. What a combination.
The feel on this combo is excellent. I do have the comparison of this same set shafted with the Black Gold and that was NOT bad.... but the TC shaft seems to be really made for this head for me. I love these irons.
They have the great combination of feel and durability with just the right amount of feedback.

I have only seen the Epons in some photos so I have little to compare. I stand by the Miura irons.

I've hit almost all of the Miura line, a few of the new Fourteens (TC-1000, 550 and the older 770), and an Epon that was in the same class as a Miura CB202 and I'd have to say that may favourites were the TC-1000 and the Miura CB202. All great irons, but I would probably go with the Fourteen TC-1000s at this point because I found they launched a bit lower than the other offerings.

You may very well be right, Carl - but what kind of surprises me is that Miura is not that well respected in Asia, compared to the legendary status he has in the US and Europe - maybe because of the two piece fusion welded forgings he uses.......

I love the clean look and direct feel of the Miura irons, and also plan on buying a set of Epon irons for the upcoming summer season.......sighhh......6 months to go

Thanks,
Claus

Only problem for me with the great Fourteen irons is their thick top line - even in the players edition of their irons, they have a pretty thick top line compared to the Miura Cb-202 irons. Didn't this top line made you think twice about the Fourteen irons (even though the Fourteen TC-1000 may be the softest feeling irons on the face of the earth, forged by Endo) ?

IMO, Epon has every right to claim they are the epitome of forgings.

They certainly are the best at making the tools and dyes - I hear Muira has Endo do their tooling, though I could be wrong.

Being the manufacturers for S-Yard, Yamaha, Mizuno (mx, jpx), Callaway, Srixon, Bridgestone + Tourstage, Honma + Beres, Kasco, Prgr, Titelist, Nike... any others?!...would make them fairly proficient in sourcing the best materials aswell. The head of Endo (Kobayashi-san) uses the analogy of "keeping the best rice for themselves" when he describes their commitment and the quality of materials assigned to Epon (The area where Endo is from is famous for rice growing ...)
Not a knock on Muira at all. Very clean player's irons IMO. Superb quality. Just a notch down from Epon!

I understand that Miura forges the Onoff tour models (CB247).

Who forges the Onoff + model? Miura?

Looks really good!

I recently sold my Miura CB1006's which is the US equivalent of the CB202's in favor of the Epons.

So many manufacturers and designs exist because we all like something a bit different. Perception cannot be matched from person to person.

I demand a custom made/fit club. Epon has been phenomenal producing and delivering
my exact requests and specifications. The US oem's have failed miserably time and time again.

For me, for many reasons, the Epons are the best overall clubs on the Planet.

claus,
in japan everyone knows the miura brand and only a few people knows about the epon brand.
this is NOT to take anything away from eopn. this was my personal opinion only...

I stopped by Morton Golf (sponsor) and they have Fourteen wedges. They look great, but I didn't know much about them at the time, so I didn't give them too much thought. Knowing now what I do about them they deserve some demo time. Great looking stuff and the Morton staff really likes them.

Hey all -

Epon is Endo! It is the retail division of Endo.

Carl, I didn't say Miura wasn't very well known in Japan. Just stated the fact that his use of two piece forgings/spin fusion welded hosels has somewhat smeared his reputation a bit. And just for the record - you won't find many golfers in the world, who love Miura players CB irons more than I do.

I know the Epon brand is a niche brand only for the few golf club HO's who are into JDM gear........like you and me and some other guys in here

Don't know how many times I've said this, but... No one make Miz forgings but Miz. NO ONE!!!!! People have got to quit being daft!


You just come out of the dark?! You make the statement like no one here knew that. Talk about old news! And it is not the "Retail" division as you claim. It is the manufacturing side for their own line of irons. Not retail! MANUFACTURER!



A lot of great JP irons out there. But I've got to give it to PRGR. If I was told to buy what I like the TR 900's would be bagged!!!

We know that very well (most of us anyway) - but as Endo also forges Titleist and Bridsgestone irons and several other irons - it's important to stress that Epon is the Premium Royal High End brand from Endo. Endo has tried to launch the Epon brand as the ultimate you can get in forged soft S20carbon steel feel and soft finish.

A lot of the Titleist irons, Endoi has forged, feel clicky and harsh in my view - due to reasons I can only guess.........maybe the finish is not made by Endo, but only the forgings, maybe the forgings is not made in the same high quality as Endo clearly is capable of......who knows......

Epon is the best Endo is capable of doing - design wise (although they are NOT for scratch players who prefer a blade razor sharp top line and ZERO offset) and forgings wise.

Never heard of a golf company called Fourteen until early September of this year. Was at the range hittin some balls and noticed some great looking irons in fellas bag next to me. Asked him if I could try them out, wow was I in for a surprise! Not only they're great pleasure to the eyes but they also felt great. Only one problem, can't afford them!

Fourteen TB-1000 forged!

Ok, I haven't hit any of the offerings from Epon. I have hit the Fourteen Proto blades and they were some of the best blades I've ever played. I've hit Miura MC 101's, a cavity offering and found all the references to butter feel and quality to be very true, a standard that is on another level. HOWEVER, I am expecting a package in a day or 2 that contains a set of Vega Blades. If I'm not mistaken these are from the same forging house that Carl ( the wedge guru) is using, Kyoei Forging House. I'm hoping that they are as pure as I expect them to be and will post a review. The other offering from Japan that I like and have in the bag, though not a Japanese company they are forged in Japan... Scratch. If you're asking what I think is the best product out of Japan, I would put this very, very high on the list, ahead of the Fourteens for sure which are hard to top.

To be honest, the thicker top line doesn't bother me at all. I've played blades forever, but they've got great feel and look smooth as well and I don't hit the ball with the top line . Fourteen's get my vote!

Hey Ramizumo.....chill brotha...
I have seen them been made with my own eyes. I was a guest of Endo when I visited their foundry in Thailand in June. I deliberately said the MX and JPX lines so people wouldn't get on their high horses. like you so quickly did..yes, yes, Mizuno makes their own MP series yadayaddayadda, but does not have the capabilities to make the sharp tooling as well as Endo does...Endo makes just about any quality forged iron that requires a complicated cavity. It is easier to say that the only forgings Endo doesn't make are TaylorMade...don't know why, and the big boss Kobayashi-san wouldn;t tell me....

club ho uno,
my bad.so sorry. but ya, that spin weld hosel is a shocker though. peace.

Guys here is my take. i agree with ali_g Endo is king. many recognize endo as the creme dela creme in forged offereings. they are the best in this aspect imho that is why all the best brands run to them to make their irons. Its taken decades for endo to gain this respect and following. now with this vast knowledge and resources at their disposal Endo comes out with their own home flagship brand. It certainly follows that what they will come up with will be something special and a cut above the rest.

it is also interesting to note that endo has a club design, research and development facility catered to just designing clubs. to add more they have their own testing facility. they employ over 100 cad engineers just for the design aspect of their oem clubs. these guys now what they are doing.

so you add the design know how and couple it with the manufacturing and forging expertise is that you come out with a superior product. It only makes sense that the home brand would be special.

now you cant please everybody and others may disagree but tis is just my take.

where or how can you buy one of those Epon or Fourteen, here in US.

I agree Spoon. Endo's expertise and experience ensures that Epon can arguably claim to be the very best there is. I certainly think so.

Endo gives the absolute best materials and tooling at their disposal for Epon - plus they do not put any time restrictions on their manufacturing processes. Every other brand they make for has certain time limitations for every step of manufacturing. Not Epon. I've been lucky enough to witness it first hand. Very impressive.

I've read that Nelson forges the Onoff+ irons!

How does Nelson rate compared to Endo and Miura?

Sorry my mistake. I could have sworn I read a post where someone thought Endo was different. Maybe confused with another thread. It is considered part of the Retail Industry as though combined, they are selling their own brand. Endo is pure manufacturing as they produce their Epon Brand and others. The Epon Brand Division then, buys the manufactured club from Endo and sells to a distributor. By Buy, I mean, it is off Endo's books and onto Epon's with an actual profit. That is just how it is run. My apologies if the use of the word "Retail" threw you into a fit.

Didn't throw me into a fit. But this sort of mis-information can lead to wasteful threads. And by the looks of your sig, you are in the biz. Hence every word you say is taken with higher authority. Part of being in the biz is being responsible to the consumer.
And by the way. Epon(Endo) is the distributor also. SOP for a JP company. Really should have a look into that before spouting sarcasm!
You must also know that "retail" is sales to end-user only. Distribution and wholesale are not and as such are not lumped into the same catagory from a layman's prespective. Your analgoy makes it sound like companies like Titleist, Mizuno, etc. are retailers. And they are most centainly not.


Who am I?
A wholesaler who used to be a retailer. Changing one customer at a time.

What about the Gold´s Factory irons. The only one I know about (in production) that even has a copper underlayer for increased feel. The flatback especielly - at least in pictures - also looks incedibly beautiful.



I know Honma also used to have copper underlay back in the days, and Titleist had it in the 660´s I think. But being a leftie no has been available for me . Btw is that still true or is there anyone with such a construction for me too??

Loved my Miuras when I was playing them, now with Scratch which I like more feel wise. I think the satin finish on the Miuras may have a slight upper hand though.

Anyone with any input on Vega?

http://www.vega-golf.com/

Miura gets my vote. From the tournament blades that I just sold to my current set of Miura forged On-Off 247 tours. Softest clubs I have hit with such a sweet thin topline. I don't think anything can beat the On Offs, but that is what I tought about the tournament blades. Oh to be a club Ho.

Who cares about the spin welded hosels? They still feel oh so good and perform like a premium set should. And with the right paintfill (see avatar) are as pretty a club as there will ever be.

Miura hands down for me.Best looking and feel for the lefties

Vega irons and wedges

not tried muira but against
titleist and ping they win hands down

look a lot like tit704 cbs at address but much better feel

and the wedges look similar to my old vokeys but play much sharper

i am using project x in them the old project with satin finnish

The Vega's look very sweet but pretty damned expensive! I got a set of MB's used when no one knew what they were and they've just been sitting in a corner collecting dust. I think I'll have them re-shafted with TT-TC's and toss them into play rotation. Right now they've got TX-90's but they feel like an X-flex.

Does the Vega folks put out Yururi's raw offerings? They look incredibly similar.

If I am not mistaken, Vega is Kyoei's in house design arm. I am also pretty sure that the Yururis are forged at Kyoei. Tourspec stated that these were the same irons.

I'd agree there. As a clubmaker, Miura are awful to make up, takes ages to bore out the hosels so you can actually get the shaft in. I believe the reason Miura haven't changed their designs much in the last twenty years is because they can't afford the tooling, only Epon really has the clout and cash to go invest in new machinery. I've found the tolerances on the Epon to be more accurate and very rarely have to use swingweights when the shaft is cut to the desired length.

As a player (hcp 0) I have tried the NA Miura and the Miura Giken, I prefer the feel of the MG's especially the MB-5003 over the North American models. But I like the click you get off the Epon AF-301 more, a bit more satisfying, reminds me of Mizuno's of old.

The Vega are an excellent club, it's a bit unfair comparing them against the Ping and Titleist though

It's a bit like comparing Ford Mondeos and Aston Martins.

Glad you're happy with the VEGA's

get fitted - have them made at the factory to your specs. Get the model that suits your game

EPON simply rules.

i absolutely adore my miura tournament blades...they just knocked out my srixon 701 tours...

Epon- Tour Spec ( brand name for their company)
Miura- good only when you have Millions to spend on tour product for PGA Players
Kyoei- AKA Vega The best I have seen out out Japan in yrs. So Good KZG Copied they "Forging Process" for their own web page. Take a look at that! and then go to www.kyoeigolf.co.jp

What do you mean Epon=Tour Spec? I know that Tour Spec sells Epon online in a big way but are you saying they own the brand Epon. Epon is a retail brand of Endo Manufacturing, right?

As far as I know, Kyoei has been forging KZG blades and CB irons for years. I did not realize that KZG owns any forging foundry. Besides KZG and Vega, I think Kyoei also forges the new Yururi blades

Have you even tried their irons? I would love to get my hands on a set of tournament blades.

As someone who has owned, or at least played with most of the top JDM brands, I feel that I am reasonably well qualified to comment on this thread! There seems to be some confusion with regard to Epon/Endo and their relationship. Endo is the manufacturing company with forging plants in Japan, Thailand and China, they produce high end forgings for many OEM's. The Epon brand is their own retail offering and is exclusively forged in their Japanese plant using only the best raw materials and the top craftsmen.
Miura is much smaller than Endo, but he is a master craftsman and still oversees production and particularly finishing/grinding of his products in their Japanese plant, Miura has recently opened an additional forging facility in Thailand to deal with the demand from the US and Europe one supposes!
My own personal preference is for Miura, there is something so special about them, no other club plays the same, and even though I prefer my epon wedges to my miura wedges, there is nothing on earth that can touch my MB5003 blades, they are the softest, sweetest clubs that I have ever used in over 30 years of playing this game. For me, the shaft is very important, Miura's seem to be at there best when fitted with Nippon NS Pro Tour 1150's, the combination is silky smooth!
Which is best - neither, both, plus many other great brands, its what you feel comfortable with - for me there is nothing that feels as good as a Miura, I curently own two sets, MB5003 blades and CB1006 players cavity backs, plus Epon AF301, Tourstage X - Blade CB and PRGR T900,(Plus Adams, Hogan, Callaway, Cobra and a couple of other sets all of which are gathering dust in the garage!) yes I am a collector/ho/madman why!

Does anyone know where Fourteen forges their irons?

Starting to like my Forged TB1000s. First time I've played blades in 8 years. I actually scored my best 2 rounds of the year (I've played about 18-20xs so far this year) with them. The feel is different from other forgings. I can find others softer (original Xblades and MR23s come to mind), but they also seem a lot more durable.

I might not even break the Pro100s out of the box they came in.